New "Archbishop" of Canterbury is a woman

[Doom]

The new "archbishop" of Canterbury is Sarah Mullally.

Forget about the entire issue of the validity of Anglican Orders; even those who have a more optimistic appraisal cannot possibly regard this as a real bishop.

The thing I find amazing about this is that everyone knows that the Church of England is all but extinct, the churches are empty, and there are more practicing Muslims than there are members of the C of E. But internationally, there is the World Anglican Communion, and the heart of Anglicanism is in Africa. The African Church is far more conservative and orthodox than the church in the West. It seems now all but certain that there is going to be a schism. They certainly know that this appointment is likely to completely dissolve the World Anglican Communion, and they don't care.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Which raises again the question, one of the big ones that brought me into the Catholic Church: What does it mean to be an Anglican? It can't be that they all accept King Charles as head of all the various Anglican Churches, and it certainly can't be that each country's head of state is head of the Anglican Church in that country, yet that was the original excuse for the creation of Anglicanism. It can't be that they all use the same prayer book, not for decades (or even centuries). It can't that they're all in communion with Canterbury, and any shred of that is gone now as various Anglican groups (particularly in Africa) won't accept a woman as ABC. What's left?

[Doom]

They all use some version of the Book of Common Prayer, but there is no uniformity on which edition. In the C of E, they still use the 1662; the Episcopal Church in the US revised it in 1928 and again in 1979. And there are God only knows how many Anglican split-off groups, and each group has its own version. And there are different versions in different countries, one in India, one in Bangladesh, one in Japan, one in China, one in Ireland, one in Scotland, etc.

I've heard Anglicanism described as "Catholic liturgy with Protestant theology," but even if that is the most common style, it is not universal. Sometimes, Catholic theology (everything except Papal Infallibility) is combined with Protestant liturgy, and sometimes, Catholic theology (everything except Papal Infallibility) is combined with Catholic liturgy.

It can't be that it is all dependent on which congreation you enter, everything from evangelical to Catholic and everything in between, that's not unity.

[aussie_aussie_oi_oi]

In a letter addressed to Bishop Mullally, Cardinal Kurt Koch, President of the Dicastery for Promoting Christian Unity, offered his congratulations and expressed the Catholic Church’s support for her new ministry. He wrote: "Having learned of your nomination… I write to congratulate you on your appointment and to express the good wishes of the Catholic Church to you as you prepare to undertake this important service in your Church. I pray that the Lord will bless you with the gifts you need for the very demanding ministry to which you have now been called, equipping you to be an instrument of communion and unity for the faithful among whom you will serve," Cardinal Koch writes.

Cardinal Koch highlighted the longstanding theological dialogue between the Anglican Communion and the Catholic Church, noting that it has fostered mutual understanding and affection over nearly sixty years. He recalled the warmth of relationships between the two communions, particularly after the death of Pope Francis earlier this year, and expressed hope that this closeness would continue: "It is my fervent hope that such closeness may continue in the years ahead as we continue to walk together on the way. With the assurance of my prayers for you and your family," he said.

[aussie_aussie_oi_oi]

Fr. Dwight Longenecker: If Pope Leo or a Catholic prelate says nice things about the appointment of an Anglican archbishop all it means is that they have good manners. It is not a theological statement.

[Doom]

Fr. Dwight Longenecker: If Pope Leo or a Catholic prelate says nice things about the appointment of an Anglican archbishop all it means is that they have good manners. It is not a theological statement.

That is one way of putting it. There is ecumenism, and then there is ecumania. In practical terms, the Catholic Church cannot engage in honest dialogue with any church that has women "Bishops." Ecumenism and dialogue require common ground, and none exists because the C of E is apostate. It is a non-Christian organization, and he was assured that the Church of England is just "a social club for the ruling class".
'
Nearly 40 years ago, the brilliant comedy "Yes, Prime Minister" satirized the C of E when the Prime Minister had to appoint a bishop or "recommend an appointment to the sovereign," which is what the PM really does. His choices were one candidate who was an atheist, one who is a Muslim, and a third one whom he is encouraged to reject because "he wants to turn the Church of England into some kind of religious organization." And the time it was originally broadcast, in 1986, the observation that the Church of England was just a social club and not a religious organization was true but exaggerated for comedy. Today, it seems like the satire doesn't go quite far enough,

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

There are very Protestant-looking Anglicans too. And the various Books of Common Prayer have less and less to do with each other. Remember that I grew up Episcopalian!

[Highlander]

In the words of one who used to frequent here:

What took them so long?

[Highlander]

...I've heard Anglicanism described as "Catholic liturgy with Protestant theology," but even if that is the most common style, it is not universal. Sometimes, Catholic theology (everything except Papal Infallibility) is combined with Protestant liturgy, and sometimes, Catholic theology (everything except Papal Infallibility) is combined with Catholic liturgy. ...

Having also been Episcopalian, I am aware of many, many issues and can tell many, many stories that led me to first leave the Episcopal church and then later find the Church. In that light, I offer that Anglicanism can be described as Catholic liturgy with no theology. It has books and schools and such, but over recent decades it metamorphosed into a social activist organization. Whose "priests" can better be described as community organizers who wear cool costumes.

During my last conversation with an old school Episcopal priest, in which I related my various concerns and tales, he agreed and said that what I was describing was sin.

[Doom]

There are very Protestant-looking Anglicans, too. And the various Books of Common Prayer have less and less to do with each other. Remember that I grew up Episcopalian!

The Book of Common Prayer, in its 1662 version, is, after the KJV Bible (which, especially in the New Testament, is mostly William Tyndale) and Shakespeare, the most influential book in the English language.

There is so much language that we take for granted, which originated in the Book of Common Prayer.

The wording of the Our Father, which both Catholics and Protestants recite, comes not from any translation of the Bible, but from the Book of Common Prayer.

The wedding liturgy we see in every TV show and movie

Dearly beloved, we are gathered here to join this man and this woman in holy matrimony, etc, and the wedding vows "for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health...." comes from the Book of Common Prayer. It is so commonly known that it is used everywhere, even in secular weddings.

The funeral rites, the whole "ashes to ashes, dust to dust" etc, come from the Book of Common Prayer

[anawim]

With the exception of the word trespasses to replace debt, The Our Father that I've always said is from Matthew. Luke's version is truncated.

[Doom]

With the exception of the word trespasses to replace debt, The Our Father that I've always said is from Matthew. Luke's version is truncated.

The word "trespass" is used only in the Book of Common Prayer, no Bible translation uses that word, preferring either "debt" and "debtors" or "sins"

[p.falk]

Fr. Dwight Longenecker: If Pope Leo or a Catholic prelate says nice things about the appointment of an Anglican archbishop all it means is that they have good manners. It is not a theological statement.

It’s really hard to separate the two… if I were progressive I would say “that’s nice of you to say Cardinal, now change your church if you’re so happy about it”

I think the catholic Church needs to come out with a strong statement against this

[Doom]

I think the catholic Church needs to come out with a strong statement against this

Everyone knows the Catholic Church is opposed to women's ordination, even Pope Francis, the most liberal pope since Paul VI, flatly said, in response to a question from a journalist, "Is there any chance for women's ordination?" by simply saying "No".

Although this fact is not exactly helped by an overeager Cardinal Cupich congratulating her on her "Ordination", women cannot be ordained, and she is not a bishop. The see of Canterbury is as vacant today as it was the day before her election.

I am a little disgusted by the overwhelming desire for "dialogue" with the C of E. What is the point of such dialogue at this juncture? We have been in dialogue with them for 60 years, and they are not in the least concerned with compromise but keep pushing the envelope further and further. At this point, Rome is like a husband still reaching out to his wife, asking for reconciliation even after she moved cross country, divorced him, and married another guy, and has 3 kids by him. There has to come a point where he accepts the marriage is over.

[p.falk]

From 2012 when asked about her stance on abortion:

“I would suspect that I would describe my approach to this issue as pro-choice rather than pro-life, although if it were a continuum I would be somewhere along it moving towards pro-life when it relates to my choice and then enabling choice when it related to others.”

[Doom]

In 1948, CS Lewis wrote an essay titled "Priestesses in the Church?"

I remembered reading this, so I looked it up.

His argument is extremely perceptive.

He says that the priest acts in the person of Christ, so if a woman can be a priest, then Christ is a woman, and the Church must be masculine, or the marriage supper of the Lamb would involve two brides. Gay marriage.

Then he says that ordaining women will lead to the idea that there is no difference between men and women, and they are interchangeable. Transgender ideology.


He then says that we might as well start praying "Our Mother" instead of "Our Father", well, today many liberal churches actually do this,

Everything he said would result from women's ordination has happened. Amazingly perceptive.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

I once heard a talk by someone (a Catholic) who had been part of the Anglican/Catholic dialogue. He said that the key problem is that the buck stops nowhere in Anglicanism. The conference participants could agree, and then the Anglicans would go home and be ignored. No one has authority to speak for Anglicanism, not even the ABC.

[aussie_aussie_oi_oi]

“Tolerance is the virtue of people who do not believe in anything.”
~ Gilbert K. Chesterton

[anawim]

Tolerance means to disagree. After all, nobody tolerates that which is already agreed upon. That's called acceptance. Tolerating something, or someone, means putting up with them.

[Doom]

I once heard a talk by someone (a Catholic) who had been part of the Anglican/Catholic dialogue. He said that the key problem is that the buck stops nowhere in Anglicanism. The conference participants could agree, and then the Anglicans would go home and be ignored. No one has authority to speak for Anglicanism, not even the ABC.

Well the real problem is that the C of E is a state Church, which means that all decisions are made based on political expediency, the chief concern always being to conform the church with current political consensus and “modern sentiment”, which is ever changing.