Gen Z and a Catholic Revival

[Doom]

The parish I attended when I was in Orlando, St. John's, was unique. The Sunday Mass was Novus Ordo, but half of it was in Latin. There were two daily Masses, one at 8:00 AM, which was a low Latin Mass, and the one at noon, which was the one I attended during the summer when university wasn't in session, and I had no work to do, was the one I usually attended. At the time, it was common for me to sleep past 8 AM (those were the days; today, I am up around 3 AM, whether I work or not), so I didn't get to attend that 8 AM Latin Mass, but I did a couple of times. I have never seen any other parish that used Latin in a Novus Ordo, although a hybrid Mass, half vernacular and half Latin, is a lot closer to what Vatican II actually envisioned for the liturgy.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Self-deception and self-justification are very human. There are all sorts of sayings addressing the idea that once a line is crossed, you have to go all the way.

Use whatever cliche you wish — "in for a penny, in for a pound," "crossing the Rubicon," "down the rabbit hole" — but ultimately it's all the same thing.

I really like the bit of Latin and the bit of Greek we hear in the Mass. “Kyrie eleison, Christe eleison” and the "Angus Dei". They are, in many ways, the highlight for me. I anticipate them. They just seem to have more weight.

I once heard of a deacon who threatened to leave the parish if his pastor instituted more Latin. The "Latin" in question was the Kyrie. O tempora! O mores!

[Highlander]

All in all, what I am seeing is another idea that, once in the hands of the modernists, got out of hand. There is a reason for conservation of tradition ... it provides the time to experiment and evaluate an determine the rate and amount of change. Today .... ?

I consider, listening to the modernists, proof positive exists that climate change has destroyed all life on earth about five times since 1990. Not to mention that all humans have died of starvation once or twice and died of Covid twice; there have been six nuclear wars, all Gazans are dead, we have no oil, the entire Second and Third worlds has been recolonized by San Marino, and everyone who is not white is now enslaved -- not to mention women being banned from universities and the professions. But enough, I need to tend to my spouse who is barefoot, chained to our stove, and, of course, pregnant.

[Highlander]

I once heard of a deacon who threatened to leave the parish if his pastor instituted more Latin. The "Latin" in question was the Kyrie. O tempora! O mores!

There is an appropriate response for such a stand:

[Doom]

I once heard of a deacon who threatened to leave the parish if his pastor instituted more Latin. The "Latin" in question was the Kyrie. O tempora! O mores!

How is it the decision of the deacon where he will serve? Shouldn't it be based entirely on need? Or was he threatening to retire?

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Deacons usually are assigned to their home parish, but they can move. I wasn't directly involved so I don't know the details, but I assume he was threatening to quit.

[Doom]

If someone is acting as an obstacle to the positive improvement of the parish, leaving would be the best option for everyone.

[Highlander]

My background is military, so I am biased. I am bumfuzzeled, in general, with the "If you don't do it the way I want you to do it, then I quit" approach to negotiating. Is the presence of one who uses blackmail as a hole card not undesirable in any social interaction? And how black is the mail? Would not a parish be better for the absence of one who cannot follow the lead of the pastor? Is the pastor not the designated leader of the parish?

The general rule is Pareto's. Twenty percent of any group of people take up 80% of management's time. I found, in the military, that almost all units are better undermanned if the undermanning involves getting rid of any of the 20% troublemakers. Fewer troops get more done and are more effective if the problem children are gone. And, BTW, are happier.

If we are pleased that young folks are appearing in the parishes, is it not better that they are welcomed into an atmosphere of peace and focus on the holy? While in ECUSA, I was dismayed as the activists pursued a hostile takeover and cared not about the impact in the pews.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

I don't know what the denouement was.

[BobCatholic]

The confession lines at my parish have gotten so long that both priests had to do confessions, and they go up to mass time when it was normally ending 30 minutes before mass time on Saturday.

During Lent the penance services which were scheduled to end at 8pm had plenty of people left in line for confession and went to 10pm.

Easter bulletin had a long list of people coming in as adults.

Something good is happening.

[aussie_aussie_oi_oi]

In the weeks leading up to Easter, dioceses and media outlets latched onto the high numbers of people set to become fully initiated into the faith in certain places to declare a sort of “Catholic revival,” which, according to one expert, isn’t exactly happening.
“For example, I’ve heard how the Archdiocese of Newark has doubled their numbers in the last couple of years, but if you actually look at the numbers they’re adding an extra 500 converts this year versus last year to a 1.3 million person diocese — that’s a drop in the bucket in the grand scheme of things,” Ryan Burge, professor of practice at the Washington University in St. Louis John C. Danforth Center on Religion and Politics, told Crux Now.
Those 500 extra people officially joining the faith in the Archdiocese of Newark this year compared to last (about 1,700 vs. about 1,200) equates to a 30 percent increase. Other dioceses that saw tremendous growth year over year include the Diocese of Norwich, Connecticut (119 percent); the Diocese of Pittsburgh (108 percent), the Diocese of Gaylord, Michigan (100 percent), and the Archdiocese of Los Angeles (139 percent).
Those figures come from the prayer app Hallow, which compiled data on the number of people becoming fully initiated into the faith this Easter from more than 140 dioceses. Alongside those areas of growth are also areas of decline, minimal growth, or stagnation, including the Diocese of Fargo, North Dakota (-29 percent), the Diocese of Reno, Nevada (-21 percent); the Diocese of Springfield, Massachusetts (-33 percent), the Archdiocese of Kansas City in Kansas (5 percent), and the Diocese of Lexington (-2 percent), the data shows.
In all, Hallow found a 38 percent increase in people officially joining the faith in 2026 compared to 2025. It’s unclear exactly how many people that is, but it’s unlikely to meet the figures Burge said are needed year over year for a true revival of Catholicism to take place.
The United States Conference of Catholic Bishops declined a Crux Now request for comment on the national figures and trends of Catholicism nationwide, noting they don’t collect the data.
“We need to be very clear about how big the Catholic Church is — the number from 2020 was 62 million people. So, to see the Catholic Church actually grow in a substantial way you need to be seeing half a million to a million converts each year,” Burge said, noting also the demographic challenges that exist.
“In order for Catholicism to grow the inflows have to exceed the outflows,” he explained. “So you also have to consider that Catholics are old. Especially white Catholic dioceses in America are going to face a demographic crisis going forward because Baby Boomers are a huge chunk of American Catholicism, and they’re going by the tens of thousands a day in years to come.”
Burge is also the author of the “The American Religious Landscape,” and runs the “Graphs about Religion” Substack. He also noted the share of Millennials and Gen Z who are “nones” — people with no religion — as an impediment to any sort of substantial growth.
https://cruxnow.com/church-in-the-usa/2 ... the-bucket

[p.falk]

In the weeks leading up to Easter, dioceses and media outlets latched onto the high numbers of people set to become fully initiated into the faith in certain places to declare a sort of “Catholic revival,” which, according to one expert, isn’t exactly happening.
“For example, I’ve heard how the Archdiocese of Newark has doubled their numbers in the last couple of years, but if you actually look at the numbers they’re adding an extra 500 converts this year versus last year to a 1.3 million person diocese — that’s a drop in the bucket in the grand scheme of things,” Ryan Burge, professor of practice at the Washington University in St. Louis John C. Danforth Center on Religion and Politics, told Crux Now.
Those 500 extra people officially joining the faith in the Archdiocese of Newark this year compared to last (about 1,700 vs. about 1,200) equates to a 30 percent increase. Other dioceses that saw tremendous growth year over year include the Diocese of Norwich, Connecticut (119 percent); the Diocese of Pittsburgh (108 percent), the Diocese of Gaylord, Michigan (100 percent), and the Archdiocese of Los Angeles (139 percent).
Those figures come from the prayer app Hallow, which compiled data on the number of people becoming fully initiated into the faith this Easter from more than 140 dioceses. Alongside those areas of growth are also areas of decline, minimal growth, or stagnation, including the Diocese of Fargo, North Dakota (-29 percent), the Diocese of Reno, Nevada (-21 percent); the Diocese of Springfield, Massachusetts (-33 percent), the Archdiocese of Kansas City in Kansas (5 percent), and the Diocese of Lexington (-2 percent), the data shows.
In all, Hallow found a 38 percent increase in people officially joining the faith in 2026 compared to 2025. It’s unclear exactly how many people that is, but it’s unlikely to meet the figures Burge said are needed year over year for a true revival of Catholicism to take place.
The United States Conference of Catholic Bishops declined a Crux Now request for comment on the national figures and trends of Catholicism nationwide, noting they don’t collect the data.
“We need to be very clear about how big the Catholic Church is — the number from 2020 was 62 million people. So, to see the Catholic Church actually grow in a substantial way you need to be seeing half a million to a million converts each year,” Burge said, noting also the demographic challenges that exist.
“In order for Catholicism to grow the inflows have to exceed the outflows,” he explained. “So you also have to consider that Catholics are old. Especially white Catholic dioceses in America are going to face a demographic crisis going forward because Baby Boomers are a huge chunk of American Catholicism, and they’re going by the tens of thousands a day in years to come.”
Burge is also the author of the “The American Religious Landscape,” and runs the “Graphs about Religion” Substack. He also noted the share of Millennials and Gen Z who are “nones” — people with no religion — as an impediment to any sort of substantial growth.
https://cruxnow.com/church-in-the-usa/2 ... the-bucket

Whew.... thank goodness we've been tamped down by that "one expert".

Aussie, growth needs to start somewhere. "Nothing to see here... there's not millions of new converts pouring into the churches."

[Highlander]

I appreciate the balance. Reality is usually somewhere between the extremes. HST, I am still encouraged by believable reports of young people and others joining/rejoining the Church.

[Doom]

Millions? Probably not. But religious census data is already changing. The percentage of people who call themselves "atheists", "agnostics," or "non-religious" reached its peak around 2020, and it has been declining ever since. While the number of people identifying as "Christian" has seen a modest uptick in the same time period.

And this is not just happening in the United States; the latest data from the UK and France show the same trends. The last religious census in the UK had 50% of the population checking the "Christian" box, the highest percentage in my lifetime; 20 years ago, it was about 30%.

All indications are that the decline in religion that has been happening since the 60s has finally stopped; we have passed the worst, and as the old joke goes, "When you have reached rock bottom, the only place to go is up".

Now, we can see signs of this in the number of big celebrities, such as notorious womanizer Russell Brand, getting baptized and professing to be a Christian. We see similar progress with Joe Rogan, who has been a public atheist for decades but has now announced he is attending church, but won't say where (understandably, as it would bring public scrutiny to wherever church is). Other celebrities who have gotten less scrutiny are Shia LeBeouf, Danica McKellar (Winnie on the 80s sitcom The Wonder Years), Nicko McBrain, drummer for the heavy metal band Iron Maiden.

Now, what exactly is happening? A large part of it is the public collapse of the so-called "New Atheism." Richard Dawkins, who 20 years ago was a major celebrity, so much so that he appeared as a guest star on an episode of Doctor Who. But today, he is a broken man who has been banned from social media and probably wouldn't get in the news if he fornicated with a sheep in front of Buckingham Palace, while his best seller "The God Delusion" is mocked by people who suggest it should be in the "Christian Apologetics" section of the book store.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Dawkins has been banned from social media not for ridiculously bad atheist apologetics but for speaking about against woke-ism. He's about the last person I'd have expected that from, but here we are.

[Doom]

Dawkins has been banned from social media not for ridiculously bad atheist apologetics but for speaking out against woke-ism. He's about the last person I'd have expected that from, but here we are.

I didn't say he was banned for being an atheist, only that he was banned. He was banned, specifically, for speaking against transgenderism, and he is not the only one; several of the old school atheists and skeptics have been banned for the same reason, including famous "Jesus mythicist" Robert Price.

On this specific issue, I am sympathetic with the old infidels (and all the banned ones are 70 and older), in speaking out against transgenderism, they were doing what they have been doing for decades: pouring cold water on a trend by saying it is illogical and stupid.

By undermining religion, they helped create this modern world where not only delusions like transgenderism are common, but one in which Islam is taking over Europe. And where there isn't Islam, there is crackpot New Ageism, such as a New Gnostic belief in tarot cards, power crystals, psychic phenomena, etc. So instead of Churches, England is being taken over by mosques and New Age shops, because nature abhors a vacuum,

They told us that when religion died, rationalism and science would take its place, and it would usher in a new secular utopia. This is exactly what is NOT happening, and some of the more thoughtful atheists, like Richard Dawkins, are aware that they made this happen, and are speaking out against these trends, but are not quite ready to be humble and admit they were wrong.

But I am convinced the hell that has been unleashed as a result of the collapse of Christianity is exactly why many are finding their way back to the Church, because even if Dawkins is not willing to admit he made a mistake, many of those who were formerly in his dying Cult of Personality are.

[Highlander]

I offer a bit of a different view. As the hold of Christianity loosens in the West, pagan nature cults arise or re-arise. Global warming is but another nature cult. As are net zero and veganism and PETA. What was Greta Thunberg's scolding of the UN but a child calling for another Children's Crusade? We have witchcraft trials constantly ... in most universities and most governments.

I do hope that the Church cab capture that energy and need and channel into the paths that it should be in.

[Doom]

That's just a long list of the hell that has been unleashed by the decline of Christianity.