The Catholic Message Board

Doom wrote: ↑Sun Oct 05, 2025 4:08 pm

p.falk wrote: ↑Sun Oct 05, 2025 3:08 pm
I think the catholic Church needs to come out with a strong statement against this

Everyone knows the Catholic Church is opposed to women's ordination, even Pope Francis, the most liberal pope since Paul VI, flatly said, in response to a question from a journalist, "Is there any chance for women's ordination?" by simply saying "No".

Although this fact is not exactly helped by an overeager Cardinal Cupich congratulating her on her "Ordination", women cannot be ordained, and she is not a bishop. The see of Canterbury is as vacant today as it was the day before her election.

I am a little disgusted by the overwhelming desire for "dialogue" with the C of E. What is the point of such dialogue at this juncture? We have been in dialogue with them for 60 years, and they are not in the least concerned with compromise but keep pushing the envelope further and further. At this point, Rome is like a husband still reaching out to his wife, asking for reconciliation even after she moved cross country, divorced him, and married another guy, and has 3 kids by him. There has to come a point where he accepts the marriage is over.

That's a really good way to put it.

anawim wrote: ↑Mon Oct 06, 2025 6:14 am Tolerance means to disagree. After all, nobody tolerates that which is already agreed upon. That's called acceptance. Tolerating something, or someone, means putting up with them.

Very well put.

Thus many Christian bodies in the Middle East ... there for centuries, never accepted, tolerated, now no longer

We don't ever write anyone off as unsalvageable. We do have to choose where to put resources, but I don't think that ARCIC is a drain on the Church, even in this era of financial problems.

https://www.anglicancommunion.org/ecume ... arcic.aspx

Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote: ↑Mon Oct 06, 2025 3:17 pm We don't ever write anyone off as unsalvageable. We do have to choose where to put resources, but I don't think that ARCIC is a drain on the Church, even in this era of financial problems.

https://www.anglicancommunion.org/ecume ... arcic.aspx

The problem is that ecumenism always seems to be one-directional. Rome is constantly making concessions and refraining from doing things, "for the sake of ecumenism," but these gestures are never reciprocated.

We are told that we can't define the Fifth Marian dogma because Protestants might not like it. There are probably many good theological reasons why such a dogmatic definition would not be opportune right now, but"ecumenism" is the reason we are always given.

Yet, do Protestants ever say to themselves, "We can't ordain women right now," or "we can't bless gay marriages right now" because Rome might not like it? Never. We concede, we defer, we never get anything in return.

It's not about winning,

BTW, there are decent reasons not to define the Coredemptrix that have nothing to do with Protestantism.

Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote: ↑Mon Oct 06, 2025 9:16 pm It's not about winning,

It''s like a marriage, a one-sided marriage doesn't work.

[quote\BTW, there are decent reasons not to define the Coredemptrix that have nothing to do with Protestantism.
[/quote]

And yet, the only reason we are ever given is "ecumenism", we can't say or do anything that might offend Protestants, or which they might misunderstand.

I have heard other reasons, such as that the doctrine is not well-enough understood.

Some have heard of my sense of loss with the loss of the concept of Christendom. Political and demographic and cultural factors have been at play, but so has the morphing of some "Christian" churches into organizations that one could argue are not Christian.

So, Doom's argument has traction. If one side negotiates in good faith, but the other does not, then any agreement is suspect. Much like negotiating nuclear arms control with Iran. When the Pastoral Provision was made for various priests and when the Personal Ordinariate of the Chair of Saint Peter was created, the Church offered a compromise. I feel that those priests and congregations who accepted those offers were operating in good faith. I also feel that those who did not accept those offers had no intention, ever, of taking the Church's offer seriously; they are way too far down the secular modernity slope.

A friend predicted that the priests and congregations who moved to the Church consisted of the few who were serious about restoring Christendom. And those that did not were not. And aren't.

When Pope JPII sad that "the time is not right", for declaring Mary, Mediatrix of all grace, as a dogma, that was good enough for me.

The Church of Nigeria (Anglican Communion) has declared spiritual independence from the Church of England, rejecting the appointment of Bishop Sarah Mullally as the new Archbishop of Canterbury. The Church said her support for same-sex marriage and her elevation as the first female to hold the position signify a troubling moral decline within the leadership of the Anglican Communion. In a statement by the Primate of the Church of Nigeria, the Most Reverend Henry Ndukuba, the Church described the announcement made on Friday, 3 October 2025, as ‘devastating’ and ‘insensitive,’ accusing the Church of England of ignoring the deep divisions already facing the global Anglican community.
https://www.vanguardngr.com/2025/10/nig ... rchbishop/

aussie_aussie_oi_oi wrote: ↑Tue Oct 07, 2025 5:02 am The Church of Nigeria (Anglican Communion) has declared spiritual independence from the Church of England ... support for same-sex marriage and her elevation as the first female to hold the position ... moral decline within the leadership of the Anglican Communion ... ‘devastating’ and ‘insensitive,’ ... ignoring the deep divisions already facing the global Anglican community.
https://www.vanguardngr.com/2025/10/nig ... rchbishop/

This reaction can be expected if, when negotiating with another party, the other party takes a stick and pokes you in the eye.

I anticipate that the CoE will now adopt victim status or will simply ignore any in the Anglican world who voice an objection. As one side gets purer and purer, it gets smaller and smaller.

I wish GK were around to provide his point of view.

That reminds me, Cardinal Pole, Queen Mary I, and Charles V of Spain all died within days of each other. It was a tragic time for Catholicism in Europe.

Days after the first female Archbishop of Canterbury, Sarah Mullally, was appointed, visitors were surprised by a new display simulating graffiti painted over the masonry of one of England’s most famous places of worship.

U.K.-based news outlet The Times reported that, according to those working at the cathedral, the "Hear Us" installation, using large stickers simulating graffiti, was reportedly inspired by working with "marginalised communities and a team of skilled artists to create vibrant handwritten literature responding to the question: ‘What would you ask God?’" The project was conceived by poet Alex Vellis and curator Jacquiline Creswell.

Didn't take long.

Sigh. At least it was "vibrant".

Highlander wrote: ↑Sat Oct 11, 2025 9:33 pm

Days after the first female Archbishop of Canterbury, Sarah Mullally, was appointed, visitors were surprised by a new display simulating graffiti painted over the masonry of one of England’s most famous places of worship.

U.K.-based news outlet The Times reported that, according to those working at the cathedral, the "Hear Us" installation, using large stickers simulating graffiti, was reportedly inspired by working with "marginalised communities and a team of skilled artists to create vibrant handwritten literature responding to the question: ‘What would you ask God?’" The project was conceived by poet Alex Vellis and curator Jacquiline Creswell.

Didn't take long.

Sigh. At least it was "vibrant".

If only they knew how clueless they look.

Years back HBO had some goofy segment where Chris Rock (comedian) was pretending to be a taxi driver. He has a .... (someone much like a Susan of the Parish Council)... riding in the backseat. Chris is talking about how much he likes rap music and this much older lady is stumbling over herself trying to express how much she likes it too. And how it's simply "modern day poetry". Chris then plays a song with some of the most abhorrent lyrics, and he's going on how it's such great "modern day poetry", while she's in the backseat forcing herself to smile and bob her head. It feels like that, what they did with the church.

Highlander wrote: ↑Sat Oct 11, 2025 9:33 pm

Days after the first female Archbishop of Canterbury, Sarah Mullally, was appointed, visitors were surprised by a new display simulating graffiti painted over the masonry of one of England’s most famous places of worship.

U.K.-based news outlet The Times reported that, according to those working at the cathedral, the "Hear Us" installation, using large stickers simulating graffiti, was reportedly inspired by working with "marginalised communities and a team of skilled artists to create vibrant handwritten literature responding to the question: ‘What would you ask God?’" The project was conceived by poet Alex Vellis and curator Jacquiline Creswell.

Didn't take long.

Sigh. At least it was "vibrant".

I'm picking up bad vibrations....

Split

https://youtu.be/IMxOLiS9DOo?si=cg5srON1zkqdCPLZ

So we are back to my original question: what does it mean to be Anglican?