Confusion over Luminous Mysteries of Light

[Doom]

To me, the Luminous Mysteries make sense.

The Joyful Mysteries deal with the Incarnation.
The Sorrowful Mysteries deal with the Crucifixion.
The Glorious Mysteries deal with the Resurrection.

Hey! Wait a minute! What about Jesus TEACHINGS? We definitely need a set of Mysteries for His teachings.

By that logic, there can be no end to the creation of new mysteries. Where are the mysteries dealing with the miracles of Christ? Where is the raising of Lazarus, the Transfiguration, the healing of lepers?

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

FWIW, Bishop Edward O'Rourke, who was Bishop of Peoria from 1971-1990, came up with what he called the Teaching Mysteries. I don't remember his exact list, but there's some overlap. I know he had the Raising of Jairus' daughter and didn't have the Proclamation of the Kingdom.

[Kage_ar]

I once (a couple of computers ago) had a set of "Eucharistic Mysteries". The first was "Mana in the Desert". Wish I could find them again.

[peregrinator]

By that logic, there can be no end to the creation of new mysteries. Where are the mysteries dealing with the miracles of Christ? Where is the raising of Lazarus, the Transfiguration, the healing of lepers?

Numinous Mysteries
Voluminous Mysteries
Bituminous Mysteries

[Vern Humphrey]

"By that logic, there can be no end to the creation of new mysteries. Where are the mysteries dealing with the miracles of Christ? Where is the raising of Lazarus, the Transfiguration, the healing of lepers?"

The only thing militating against that is that the Rosary would become unwieldy. It seems to me that the current series of mysteries, His Incarnation, His Teaching, His Suffering and His Resurrection covers the story of Christ very nicely.

[Doom]

"By that logic, there can be no end to the creation of new mysteries. Where are the mysteries dealing with the miracles of Christ? Where is the raising of Lazarus, the Transfiguration, the healing of lepers?"

The only thing militating against that is that the Rosary would become unwieldy. It seems to me that the current series of mysteries, His Incarnation, His Teaching, His Suffering and His Resurrection covers the story of Christ very nicely.

The Glorious, Joyful, and Sorrowful Mysteries do that fine too. A devotion doesn't have to be comprehensive, the devotion of The Seven Sorrows of Mary doesn't cover every conceivable thing that could be said on the subject, in fact, seven were chosen simply because 7 is a mystical number, it could be the 50 Sorrows of Mary, just as 15 Mysteries were chosen to conform to the 150 Psalms.

[peregrinator]

Indeed the Mass itself is not a comprehensive statement on everything we believe, why should a "mere" devotion be so?

[Vern Humphrey]

Indeed the Mass itself is not a comprehensive statement on everything we believe, why should a "mere" devotion be so?

Why should it NOT? The addition of the Luminous Mysteries give us a complete overview of His mission -- Incarnation, teaching, suffering and resurrection. How could anyone object to that?

[Doom]

Indeed the Mass itself is not a comprehensive statement on everything we believe, why should a "mere" devotion be so?

Why should it NOT? The addition of the Luminous Mysteries give us a complete overview of His mission -- Incarnation, teaching, suffering and resurrection. How could anyone object to that?

I have already provided half a dozen good reasons against them, I will not reiterate them.

[Riverboat]

The addition of the Luminous Mysteries give us a complete overview of His mission -- Incarnation, teaching, suffering and resurrection. How could anyone object to that?

I'm with you, but we seem to be alone.

[Vern Humphrey]

The addition of the Luminous Mysteries give us a complete overview of His mission -- Incarnation, teaching, suffering and resurrection. How could anyone object to that?

I'm with you, but we seem to be alone.

Some people just have to complain.

[peregrinator]

... and some like to complain about those who complain

[Vern Humphrey]

... and some like to complain about those who complain

Touche!

[RCastle]

She was not with him for the Agony in the Garden, the Scourging at the Pillar or the Crowning with Thorns. Nor was she there for the Resurrection.

We believe Our Lady was with Jesus every step of the way, albeit not necessary physically present.

Yes i know and understand that. What i mean is the Luminous Mysteries were not promulgated by the Blessed Virgin Mary Herself through any of her apparitions. Neither have there been any apparitions after JPII promulgated these to confirm this is something she desires for us to include in this most indulgenced of prayers/devotions.

[RCastle]

The fact they address current issues in the Church seems to speak well for them while two canonized Saints using them in prayer also seems to speak well for them.[/quote

This is not really a good reason. Modern canonized “saints” can do or say things that are simply outrageous against the faith. E.g. JPII’s Assisi meetings (helped people break the 1st commandment) or how he allowed pagan rituals to be performed on himself. No one here is going to help people to start breaking commandments or invite American Indians over to do rituals with feathers. Or in other words, just because someone who received a modern canonization did it doesn't mean its free from error, imprudence, or impiety.

You seem to be implying the canonization process for Saints is not being followed in accordance to how it has been done previously or it is being done with less due care and consideration than it was in the past.
----
I appreciate the way you unpacked the Rosary and its structure as first given to St. Dominic By the Our Lady(B.V.M.).I appreciate the detailed historical background you provided. It has helped convince me to honor the Rosary of Our Lady in the way it has been passed down to us through the last 8 centuries.

I think i may just do the Luminous as a side chaplet from time to time as i feel a mystery from it feeds a specific spiritual need I have. Also your argumentation about the "Proclamation of the Kingdom" as a non starter for a mystery holds a lot of water for me and was very cogent and helpful to show this set of mysteries was not as well conceived as appears at first glance.

Thank you for making matters clearer to me regarding the Luminous Mysteries. While not every argument you gave defending the traditional form was convincing (your equating rosary to psalter does fit the history of the Rosary's predecessor's structure that seemed to be be preparing the world to receive this special devotion directly from Our Lady to St. Dominic. However, other rosaries do not have the Psalter of David specifically involved in the organic development surrounding their being promulgated to or by a Saint or Saints through Marian apparitions etc.) But i fairly understood the rationale you were attempting to drive home and I appreciate the love for Our Lady behind it.


More than anything i wanted to thank you for the time and effort you put into explaining as fully as you did the argumentation against the inclusion of the Luminous Mysteries into the Rosary of the Blessed Virgin Mary. Deo Gratias and God Bless!

[Riverboat]

In honor of Our Lady whose nativity we celebrate today, I was led to this interesting bio of Blessed Bartolo Longo, a former Satanic priest who turned to the Blessed Mother in his despair. The link belongs to the Dominican Friars:

"Perhaps his most lasting contribution of all will prove to be the Luminous Mysteries of the Rosary. It was from Blessed Bartolo’s writings that Pope John Paul II found not only the idea of mysteries covering the time of Jesus’ public ministry, but also what the individual mysteries should be and what all five as a whole should be called. When he proposed the new Mysteries of Light in his 2002 encyclical The Rosary of the Blessed Virgin Mary, Pope John Paul II didn’t hesitate to show his admiration for this holy man whose conversion and subsequent holy life demonstrate that no matter how far away from the faith one is, there’s always hope. After referring to Blessed Bartolo’s insights throughout his Rosary encyclical, Pope John Paul II concluded by quoting the prayer of the man he beatified in 1980. - https://dominicanfriars.org/former-sata ... ame-saint/

[Doom]

The complaints about the Luminous Mysteries are not petty or insignificant.

This breaks the entire structure of the Rosary as "Our Lady's Psalter" by making a full Rosary have 200 Hail Marys instead of 150 is not ea small complaint. Radically changing the entire nature of the Rosary is kind of a big deal.

This ruins the traditional rotation of mysteries, with each mystery getting two days with Sundays alternating based on the liturgical season, is not a small complaint.

The traditional mysteries developed over centuries from the bottom up, while the Luminous mysteries were imposed in an autocratic, dictatorial way from the top down is not a small complaint.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

They're optional.

[Riverboat]

This ruins the traditional rotation of mysteries, with each mystery getting two days with Sundays alternating based on the liturgical season, is not a small complaint.

I don't quite get the problem. With the three mysteries, one of the days gets an extra dose. There's never going to be an even spread. So what?

[T]he Luminous mysteries were imposed in an autocratic, dictatorial way from the top down.

"Dictatorial" seems overly strong, particularly as Obi-Wan and millions of others have pointed out the Luminous mysteries are OP-TION-AL.

For what it's worth, I didn't intend to restart a previous quibble. I simply posted something I thought worth considering for those who appreciate the Luminous mysteries. I provided a link to the Dominican order. My view is if they don't have a problem with it, why should I?

[peregrinator]

They're optional.

Yes, but also no.