The Catholic Message Board

Surely, we can all agree that the 1972 film is a terrible movie that should be remade with actors who can actually sing.

To be sure, it is not one of the high points of movie musicals.

And don't call me Shirley.

Actually, we don't all agree. It ain't the pinnacle, but it is poignant. Which, I think, is much the point. Were it remade, I don't think you could top Loren or Coco. I am finding myself defending a good, but not great, musical. And wondering how that happened.

Not a Disney musical fan. Phantom doesn't resonate; it grates. I would defend Moulin Rouge, West Side Story, La La Land, Jersey Boys, The Producers, Cabaret, Evita, Grease, Sound of Music, The King and I, and on and on. And I'd leap, so to speak, to defend Show Boat.

Sophia Loren is a terrible choice for the role. Duclinea is not supposed to be beautiful; she is supposed to be plain-looking, but Don Quixote is delusional and doesn't see the truth. In fact, that is an excellent reason why the book should never be adapted.

Chocolate?

Highlander wrote: ↑Fri Mar 20, 2026 11:51 pm "he described his own voice akin to Coca-Cola bottles being 'crushed under a door"

Glass or plastic?

Anyway, with all due respect, Wikipedia may not be the most reliable source. As an online college tutor, we have a canned comment for papers that use Wiki-citations.

"Don't"?

Saw information in multiple places. Chose Wiki as best summary. Do with it as you will.

Riverboat wrote: ↑Sat Mar 21, 2026 8:24 pm [, Wikipedia may not be the most reliable source.

On controversial questions? No, on pop culture, such as whether or not Peter O'Toole thought of himself as a good singer, yes.

By the way, in 1972, there were no plastic bottles.

Whoa, Big D, you come up with some amazing tidbits of information.

Highlander wrote: ↑Sun Mar 22, 2026 1:25 pm Whoa, Big D, you come up with some amazing tidbits of information.

I can only assume that is sarcasm, plastic soda bottles were introduced in the 1980's and glass was phased out due to the higher cost, the same reason pure cane sugar was replaced with high fructose corn syrup. It was in the 80s that bottles got bigger, the glass bottles held 10 ounces, while the plastic ones held 20 ounces.

Nope, Pard. It was a complement tinged with just a hint of admiration.

It is an example of miscommunication due to no visual cues and no audible tone.

Highlander wrote: ↑Sat Mar 21, 2026 12:52 pm Not a Disney musical fan. Phantom doesn't resonate; it grates. I would defend Moulin Rouge, West Side Story, La La Land, Jersey Boys, The Producers, Cabaret, Evita, Grease, Sound of Music, The King and I, and on and on. And I'd leap, so to speak, to defend Show Boat.

Sophia Loren was the only reason I would consent to watch that thing again.

Which West Side Story do you prefer? Every time I watched the original, I wished for a remake. I cringe when I hear the old street lingo, but that's kind of the point. What was edgy then seems almost quaint. Daddy-O? If I ever used that in front of HS students I'd be hooted right out of the room. As for Natalie Wood, yeah, I guess she'd pass for a Puerto Rican. Maybe. Couldn't they have just put some cocoa butter on Marnie Nixon and called it a day?

My perspective on musicals is different from most having performed in a number of them. Personally experiencing the stage version makes me more critical. I dislike Grease for a variety of reasons, but most of that was because I really dislike Olivia Newton-John and her breathy singing. On the other hand, I think I must be the only person who liked the new version of West Side Story.

I appreciate your comments, you having trod the boards. I had a friend who was in local musicals and she hated, hated, hated Hugh Jackman in Oklahoma. I admired his performance, but he wasn't Curly. Or any sort of cowboy.

I prefer he first West Side Story. Yup, dated. But it was of its time. I must admit to being partial to Natalie Wood in anything, but, yes, she wasn't una puertorriqueña.

As to Grease, it's just fun.

I think that we are dancing around suspension of disbelief. To enjoy a great swath of the arts, one must. After all, how often, in spite of flash mobs, do we see people on the street break in to song and dance like professionals, with an orchestra hidden somewhere unseen? For example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2ySBtVLCYA

Looking back at it, Man of La Mancha just has too much 60s cynicism in it for me to really like it. (I was a muleteer.)

The windmill story was funny. But there have been so many misfortunes even funnier.

DQ and Sancho watching a cloud of dust enveloping of two rival factions about to clash... charging towards each other. They're obscured by the cloud of dust they're kicking up. DQ takes about 2 lengthy paragraphs to describe everyone that he claims to be able to see comprising the ranks: valiant knights, enormous giants... but in reality only two herds of sheep headed towards each other. Sancho points out that, though obscured from vision there is what sounds to be bleating sheep. DQ informs him that it's just his fear cloaking the reality.

Bravely, albeit rashly, DQ charges the throng:

With this he rode into the army of sheep and began to spear them with as much fury and determination as if he really were attacking mortal enemies. The shepherds and farmers accompanying the flock were screaming at him to stop, but, seeing that this didn't have any effect, they drew their slings from their belts and started to salute him about the ears with stones the size of fists.

.....

Or seeing the "knights in white"... demanding that they tell him who they are, where they are heading, and if there is any issues they wish DQ to redress for them. They essentially respond with "bugger off, we're busy and have been traveling a long time".

DQ now charges and attacks them:

The men in white were timorous characters, and unarmed; and so they were only too happy to flee from the skirmish and run away across the plain with their torches blazing, looking for all the world like masked figures at a midnight party rushing hither and thither. But the men in mourning, swathed and tangled in their skirts and cassocks, couldn't run, so DQ gave them all a good beating with impunity and made them quit the field much against their will, because they all thought he wasn't a man but a devil from hell, come to steal away the dead body they were carrying in the litter.

Courageous DQ just overpowered a bunch of exhausted and mourning priests who were bringing a friend of theirs who died to Segovia. The footnotes say that this is a rough and long journey to make.

I like how the narrator initially describes them as "timorous". Poor folk now get beaten and chased by someone deluded into thinking he's doing some wonderous deed.

There is that note where DQ sees and believes because he must. His fantastical world is the only place left for him. There is a bravery in that. At least that's what I gleaned from the movie.

Highlander wrote: ↑Tue Mar 24, 2026 11:17 pm There is that note where DQ sees and believes because he must. His fantastical world is the only place left for him. There is a bravery in that. At least that's what I gleaned from the movie.

The story is comedy and tragedy in more or less equal parts. He starts as the crazy person that everyone else humors, but eventually, he regains his lucidity, and when it ends, he is the one sane person in a world where everyone else is crazy. This is, of course, the only possible way the story could go.

Highlander wrote: ↑Tue Mar 24, 2026 11:17 pm There is that note where DQ sees and believes because he must. His fantastical world is the only place left for him. There is a bravery in that. At least that's what I gleaned from the movie.

"But maddest of all to see the world as it is and not as it ought to be." Or something like that.

I was close: "I've been a soldier and a slave. I've seen my comrades fall in battle or die more slowly under the lash in Africa. I've held them in my arms at the final moment. These were men who saw life as it is, yet they died despairing. No glory, no brave last words, only their eyes, filled with confusion, questioning "Why?" I don't think they were wondering why they were dying, but why they had ever lived. When life itself seems lunatic, who knows where madness lies? To surrender dreams - -this may be madness; to seek treasure where there is only trash. Too much sanity may be madness! But maddest of all - -to see life as it is and not as it should be."