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Mater Populi Fidelis - Doctrinal Note on Some Marian Titles

Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2025 5:24 am
by aussie_aussie_oi_oi
The Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith on Tuesday, 4 November 2025, published Mater populi fidelis (“The Mother of the Faithful People”), a Doctrinal Note “On Some Marian Titles Regarding Mary’s Cooperation in the Work of Salvation.” Signed by the Prefect, Cardinal Víctor Manuel Fernández, and the Secretary for the Dicastery’s Doctrinal Section, Monsignor Armando Matteo, the Note was approved by the Pope on 7 October.

Mater populi fidelis (MPF) is the fruit of a long and complex collegial effort. It is a doctrinal document on Marian devotion, centred on the figure of Mary, who is associated with the work of Christ as Mother of believers. The Note provides a significant biblical foundation for devotion to Mary, as well as marshalling various contributions from the Fathers, the Doctors of the Church, elements of Eastern tradition, and the thought of recent Popes.

In this positive framework, the doctrinal text analyses a number of Marian titles, encouraging the adoption of some of those appellations and warning against the use of others. Titles such as “Mother of Believers,” “Spiritual Mother,” “Mother of the Faithful” are noticed with approval in the Note. Conversely, the title of “Co-redemptrix” is deemed inappropriate and problematic. The title of “Mediatrix” is considered unacceptable when it takes on a meaning that excludes Jesus Christ; however, it can used appropriately so long as it expresses an inclusive and participatory mediation that glorifies the power of Christ. The titles “Mother of Grace” and “Mediatrix of All Graces” are considered acceptable when used in a very precise sense, but the document also warns of particularly broad explanations of the meaning of the terms.

Essentially, the Note reaffirms Catholic doctrine, which has always emphasised that everything in Mary is directed towards the centrality of Christ and His salvific work. For this reason, even if some Marian titles admit of an orthodox interpretation through correct exegesis, Mater populi fidelis says it is preferable to avoid them.

In his presentation of the Doctrinal Note, Cardinal Fernández expresses appreciation for popular devotion but warns against groups and publications that propose a certain dogmatic development and raise doubts among the faithful, including through social media. The main problem in interpreting these titles applied to Our Lady, he says concerns the way of understanding Mary's association with Christ's work of redemption (paragraph 3).

Regarding the title “Co-redemptrix,” the Note recalls that “some Popes have used the title “without elaborating much on its meaning.” Generally, it continues, “they have presented the title in two specific ways: in reference to Mary’s divine motherhood (insofar as she, as Mother, made possible the Redemption that Christ accomplished) or in reference to her union with Christ at the redemptive Cross. The Second Vatican Council refrained from using the title for dogmatic, pastoral, and ecumenical reasons. Saint John Paul II referred to Mary as ‘Co-redemptrix’ on at least seven occasions, particularly relating this title to the salvific value of our sufferings when they are offered together with the sufferings of Christ, to whom Mary is united especially at the Cross” (18).

The document cites an internal discussion within the then-Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, which in February 1996 had discussed the request to proclaim a new dogma on Mary as “Co-redemptrix or Mediatrix of all graces.” Then-Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger was opposed to such a definition, arguing, “the precise meaning of these titles is not clear, and the doctrine contained in them is not mature. […] It is not clear how the doctrine expressed in these titles is present in Scripture and the apostolic tradition.”

Later, in 2002, the future Benedict XVI expressed himself publicly in the same way: “The formula ‘Co-redemptrix’ departs to too great an extent from the language of Scripture and of the Fathers and therefore gives rise to misunderstandings… Everything comes from Him [Christ], as the Letter to the Ephesians and the Letter to the Colossians, in particular, tell us; Mary, too, is everything that she is through Him. The word ‘Co-redemptrix’ would obscure this origin.” The note clarifies that Cardinal Ratzinger did not deny the good intentions behind the proposal, nor the valuable aspects reflected in it, but nonetheless maintained that they were “being expressed in the wrong way” (19). Pope Francis also expressed his clear opposition to the use of the title Co-Redemptrix on at least three occasions.

https://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/cong ... is_en.html

Re: Mater Populi Fidelis - Doctrinal Note on Some Marian Titles

Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2025 6:40 am
by anawim
First of all (and you know you are in trouble anytime a woman starts a conversation with, 'first of all') If I can be taught as an 8 year old, that Co means "with" in Latin (she co-operates with the grace of salvation), then trust me, everyone else can be taught as well.

Second, saying that a concept, 'gives rise to misunderstandings' is akin to a line from Coal Miner's Daughter: "Ah may be ignorant, but ah aint stupid". People are 'not too stupid to learn'. To say otherwise is actually calling yourself unable to teach.

Re: Mater Populi Fidelis - Doctrinal Note on Some Marian Titles

Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2025 10:37 am
by Obi-Wan Kenobi
I think the concerns are reasonable and well-stated.

Re: Mater Populi Fidelis - Doctrinal Note on Some Marian Titles

Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2025 11:24 am
by anawim
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote: Tue Nov 04, 2025 10:37 am I think the concerns are reasonable and well-stated.
However 'reasonable and well stated', the failure to teach is the equivalent of laziness. You wouldn't say that the Eucharist is too complex to explain. At the very least, you can say "It's a mystery". Worked for the nuns. Nobody ever questioned them.

Re: Mater Populi Fidelis - Doctrinal Note on Some Marian Titles

Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2025 2:11 pm
by Doom
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote: Tue Nov 04, 2025 10:37 am I think the concerns are reasonable and well-stated.
In all seriousness, I don’t think that there is any such thing as a teaching so clear and well explained that malicious people cannot distort it.

Is this teaching really more scandalous than saying the Eucharist is a sacrifice, or that Mary is the Mother of God or a 1000 million other things that the ignorant and unstable distort, as they do the scriptures and the writings of the Fathers, Doctors of the Church and former papal documents?

If it comes to it, the enemies of the Church will simply make things up, how many times have I seen the fake quote from Leo XIII “I am God Almighty on this Earth?”

Re: Mater Populi Fidelis - Doctrinal Note on Some Marian Titles

Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2025 3:17 pm
by Obi-Wan Kenobi
It's not fake. It's from Praeclara Gratulonis Publicae, fourth paragraph. Out of context, yes. Fake, no.

Re: Mater Populi Fidelis - Doctrinal Note on Some Marian Titles

Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2025 4:23 pm
by Doom
If someone has a theological argument, I am all ears, but simply saying "People might not understand it" is a dog that just won't hunt. That is never a legitimate reason for refraining from saying anything.

I know that this document is not magisterial, but this tendency to grant Protestants the "heckler's veto" is not a good trend. If this was the attitude of Church authorities during the 16th century, there never would have been a Council of Trent; if it had existed in the 19th century, there never would have been a Vatican Council I. There was a time, and it wasn't long ago, when the fact that there was opposition to a teaching led the Church to double and triple down on that teaching, not retreat from it.

There are already many titles in use, including Mother of God, Queen of Heaven, and Mediatrix. Vatican II used the latter term in the last chapter of Lumen Gentium, a paragraph and title directly cited in the Catechism, which critics find extremely offensive and do not understand.

Re: Mater Populi Fidelis - Doctrinal Note on Some Marian Titles

Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2025 5:58 pm
by Obi-Wan Kenobi
In response to "what about the Eucharist" and "what about Mother of God", I say that these are central mysteries of the Faith. In particular, I keep seeing people on FB mention "Mother of God." It's important to remember that "Mother of God" is a statement about Jesus before it's a statement about Mary; it was used in the debate over Nestorianism and the claim that Jesus is two persons, one human and one divine. By saying that Mary is Mother of God, we affirm that she gave birth to one Person who is divine. The risk of misunderstanding is worth it to safeguard the essential truth of the doctrine of the Incarnation.

No similar truths are at stake with "Co-Redemptrix" and "Mediatrix", so one can reasonably conclude that the ensuing confusion is not worth it.

Re: Mater Populi Fidelis - Doctrinal Note on Some Marian Titles

Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2025 6:05 pm
by anawim
I liked St. JPII response to the Vox Populi the best: "The time is not right". Anything else is lazy.

Re: Mater Populi Fidelis - Doctrinal Note on Some Marian Titles

Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2025 6:34 pm
by Doom
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote: Tue Nov 04, 2025 5:58 pm

No similar truths are at stake with "Co-Redemptrix" and "Mediatrix", so one can reasonably conclude that the ensuing confusion is not worth it.
Mediatrix is already an official teaching of the Church; that horse is already out of the barn. When an ecumenical council, even a pastoral rather than a dogmatic one, uses a title, that title is official.

Re: Mater Populi Fidelis - Doctrinal Note on Some Marian Titles

Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2025 8:02 pm
by Obi-Wan Kenobi
Nope.

Re: Mater Populi Fidelis - Doctrinal Note on Some Marian Titles

Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2025 8:08 pm
by anawim
CCC 969
"This motherhood of Mary in the order of grace continues uninterruptedly from the consent which she loyally gave at the Annunciation and which she sustained without wavering beneath the cross, until the eternal fulfilment of all the elect. Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation .... Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix." 512

512 LG 62

Re: Mater Populi Fidelis - Doctrinal Note on Some Marian Titles

Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2025 8:28 pm
by Doom
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote: Tue Nov 04, 2025 8:02 pmNope.
You are starting to sound like one of those progressives trying to deny that women's ordination hasn't been definitively ruled out. Lumen Gentium is a dogmatic constitution, which is the highest level of teaching that an ecumenical council can issue. While there is no definition of what the word means, the fact that it uses the word means it is official teaching.

Re: Mater Populi Fidelis - Doctrinal Note on Some Marian Titles

Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2025 9:15 pm
by Obi-Wan Kenobi
The definition of doctrine doesn't work that way. Even the most vocal advocates of Mediatrix and Co-redemptrix acknowledge this because of their insistence that it should be defined.

Re: Mater Populi Fidelis - Doctrinal Note on Some Marian Titles

Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2025 9:40 pm
by Doom
If you wanna talk about misunderstanding, a couple of years ago, I walked out of Mass on the Feast of the Immaculate Conception, when I overheard a child asking his father, "I don't get it, if Jesus was conceived on December 8, how could he be born on December 25?" The father replied, "I've never understood that either."

Note: this was after a homily where it was explained that, among other things, "Immaculate Conception" does not mean "Virgin Birth" but refers rather to the conception of Mary. Was it enough for everyone present to get the point? Apparently not.

I have noticed, when I am in front of a classroom, there is something I call "The funhouse mirror effect" where whatever I say, there is someone in the class who somehow hears me saying the exact opposite. I can't explain it.

Re: Mater Populi Fidelis - Doctrinal Note on Some Marian Titles

Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2025 9:51 pm
by Doom
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote: Tue Nov 04, 2025 9:15 pm The definition of doctrine doesn't work that way. Even the most vocal advocates of Mediatrix and Co-redemptrix acknowledge this because of their insistence that it should be defined.
So are you saying that before the dogmatic definitions of the Immaculate Conception and the Assumption by Pius IX and Pius XII, these were doctrinal or binding either, even though previous popes and councils had referred to these things without formally defining them?

It is true that, by definition of Papal infallibility, some things Popes say are not infallible and could be in error; otherwise, there would be no point in defining the difference between ex cathedra and non ex cathedra teachings.

So the previous Papal teachings, going back to Benedict XV, using the term Co-Redemptrix, including at least 5 times by John Paul II, are certainly not binding, especially since they all went out of their way to avoid using it in a magisterial document and only used it informally.

But this does mean that the term is, or at least could be understood as, entirely orthodox. So frankly, the way that this document seems to be suggesting that the term is simply wrong and should never be used, and might even be heretical, is a rather unprecedented rebuke of previous Popes, even though this document itself is again not magisterial.

Re: Mater Populi Fidelis - Doctrinal Note on Some Marian Titles

Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2025 10:05 pm
by Obi-Wan Kenobi
Who is more likely to know what has and has not been defined: Random people on the Internet, or the head of the DDF?

Re: Mater Populi Fidelis - Doctrinal Note on Some Marian Titles

Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2025 2:39 pm
by Doom
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote: Tue Nov 04, 2025 10:05 pm Who is more likely to know what has and has not been defined: Random people on the Internet, or the head of the DDF?
NO ONE IS SAYING IT IS DEFINED

But there is a world of difference between “this is not defined” and “this is heretical”, especially when you are talking about views which were endorsed by canonized saints, such as John Paul II. I literally never thought i would see the day when one Pope threw his predecessors under the bus.

Re: Mater Populi Fidelis - Doctrinal Note on Some Marian Titles

Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2025 3:19 pm
by Obi-Wan Kenobi
Where does the document call it “heretical”?

Re: Mater Populi Fidelis - Doctrinal Note on Some Marian Titles

Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2025 6:21 pm
by Obi-Wan Kenobi
Doom wrote: Wed Nov 05, 2025 2:39 pm NO ONE IS SAYING IT IS DEFINED
Mediatrix is already an official teaching of the Church; that horse is already out of the barn. When an ecumenical council, even a pastoral rather than a dogmatic one, uses a title, that title is official.