The Catholic Message Board

A man in the OCIA class I co-lead was aghast at the teaching that the consecrated bread and wine are then actually Christ's (risen) body and blood (not to mention soul and divinity).
We understand from surveys that a good portion of Catholics, even attending Mass, have their doubts about this too. I hear some who do believe the teaching talk as if those who don't are committing a sacrilege if they receive it without such belief, as Paul seems to say in 1 Corinthians 11:27-32. But note that neither the Creed nor the baptismal rite say anything about the matter. And in John 6, Jesus does say that whoever eats his flesh and drinks his blood has eternal life.
How do you understand the standing of this doctrine and its implications for receiving communion?

I guess I don't really understand the question

VeryTas wrote: ↑Sat Oct 03, 2026 4:03 pm We understand from surveys that a good portion of Catholics, even attending Mass, have their doubts about this too.

The Pew Poll just asked, "Are you Catholic?". That number was 33% believe in the real prescence.
Another poll, paid for by Notre Dame, and conducted by Georgetown University explicitly asked, "Do you attend Mass regularly?". Of those people 72% 'strongly agree'; and another 18% 'agree' with the real presence.
So 90% of Mass going Catholics do believe.

Saint JP2 wrote:
The sacramental re-presentation of Christ's sacrifice, crowned by the resurrection, in the Mass involves a most special presence which – in the words of Paul VI – “is called 'real' not as a way of excluding all other types of presence as if they were 'not real', but because it is a presence in the fullest sense: a substantial presence whereby Christ, the God-Man, is wholly and entirely present”.22 This sets forth once more the perennially valid teaching of the Council of Trent: “the consecration of the bread and wine effects the change of the whole substance of the bread into the substance of the body of Christ our Lord, and of the whole substance of the wine into the substance of his blood. And the holy Catholic Church has fittingly and properly called this change transubstantiation”.23 Truly the Eucharist is a mysterium fidei, a mystery which surpasses our understanding and can only be received in faith, as is often brought out in the catechesis of the Church Fathers regarding this divine sacrament: “Do not see – Saint Cyril of Jerusalem exhorts – in the bread and wine merely natural elements, because the Lord has expressly said that they are his body and his blood: faith assures you of this, though your senses suggest otherwise”.24

https://www.vatican.va/content/john-pau ... -euch.html

The majority of Mass going Catholics do believe in transubstantiation in a way that is beyond our understanding. Those who only partially believe are on a journey who will be graced, if they are open to conversion of mind and heart, closer to the mystery of our faith.

The doctrine is de fide. I'm raising a practical or pastoral question: can a catechumen be baptised if he can't yet assent to this doctrine? And are Catholics that don't yet believe it committing a sin when they receive the Eucharist.

anawim wrote: ↑Sat Oct 03, 2026 4:25 pm

VeryTas wrote: ↑Sat Oct 03, 2026 4:03 pm We understand from surveys that a good portion of Catholics, even attending Mass, have their doubts about this too.

The Pew Poll just asked, "Are you Catholic?". That number was 33% believe in the real prescence.
Another poll, paid for by Notre Dame, and conducted by Georgetown University explicitly asked, "Do you attend Mass regularly?". Of those people 72% 'strongly agree'; and another 18% 'agree' with the real presence.
So 90% of Mass going Catholics do believe.

It is important to understand that for many, religious affiliation is purely cultural; if someone is Lutheran or Presbyterian or whatever, and they leave, they might continue to call themselves "Lutheran" for the rest of their lives even if they stopped going to church immediately after being confirmed at age 14.

But when it comes to purely cultural affiliation, "Catholic" and "Jewish" are the most pronounced. People like Madonna or those who make a career out of mocking Catholicism will still call themselves "Catholic," saying "once Catholic, always Catholic". The fact that someone calls himself "Catholic" means literally nothing; they have attended Mass at least once in their lifetime.

VeryTas wrote: ↑Sat Oct 03, 2026 6:05 pm The doctrine is de fide. I'm raising a practical or pastoral question: can a catechumen be baptised if he can't yet assent to this doctrine? .

I wouldn't think so

Doom wrote: ↑Sat Oct 03, 2026 6:55 pm

VeryTas wrote: ↑Sat Oct 03, 2026 6:05 pm The doctrine is de fide. I'm raising a practical or pastoral question: can a catechumen be baptised if he can't yet assent to this doctrine? .

I wouldn't think so

I'll check with our pastor, but meanwhile maybe we'll hear from Obi-Wan. I won't play them off against each other.

I have been carefully not commenting because I don't have a handy answer. It's the pastor's call.