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AB Vigano announces house of formation to 'resist errors of Vatican II"
Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2023 5:56 am
by Stella
Re: AB Vigano announces house of formation to 'resist errors of Vatican II"
Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2023 8:51 am
by peregrinator
Pretty sure it isn't the answer
Re: AB Vigano announces house of formation to 'resist errors of Vatican II"
Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2023 9:14 am
by Obi-Wan Kenobi
That depends on the question.
Re: AB Vigano announces house of formation to 'resist errors of Vatican II"
Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2023 6:02 pm
by Stella
I'm on Twitter/X and it seems that people are being less cautious about criticising Vatican II and more inclined towards declaring it heretical in essence. Archbishop Vigano has crossed this line a few years ago and actively courts online Catholics to consider that a possibility.
My question is, is establishing another line of the Church an answer to perceived failures in implementing Vatican II reforms?
Answering my own question I'd say no. It's better to live with an imperfect implementation and love it unconditionally than address it by this pathway.
Re: AB Vigano announces house of formation to 'resist errors of Vatican II"
Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2023 8:33 am
by Gandalf the Grey
Stella wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2023 6:02 pm
I'm on Twitter/X and it seems that people are being less cautious about criticising Vatican II and more inclined towards declaring it heretical in essence. Archbishop Vigano has crossed this line a few years ago and actively courts online Catholics to consider that a possibility.
My question is, is establishing another line of the Church an answer to perceived failures in implementing Vatican II reforms?
Answering my own question I'd say no. It's better to live with an imperfect implementation and love it unconditionally than address it by this pathway.
Why should any implementation be "loved unconditionally"?
People should be loved unconditionally. Sure.
But how we are to worship God has conditions, and those conditions have already been established by Christ because objectively He is the only one Who is actually doing the worship that is pleasing to God. Ultimately it's His worship, His Liturgy. We only participate with His worship in a secondary manner.
It seems to me that in the decades of imperfect implementation since VII too many people lost sight of that fact.
Re: AB Vigano announces house of formation to 'resist errors of Vatican II"
Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2023 10:15 am
by peregrinator
I don't even love the Council unconditionally (there are ambiguities in the documents at the very least, as well as things that I believe are wrong-headed), why would I love its implementation?
Re: AB Vigano announces house of formation to 'resist errors of Vatican II"
Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2023 10:17 am
by peregrinator
Anyway, I found Vigano's initial criticisms of Pope Francis to be compelling, especially as a pattern seems to have emerged of the latter protecting clerics credibly accused of abuse, but he's become a crank.
Re: AB Vigano announces house of formation to 'resist errors of Vatican II"
Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2023 11:18 am
by Gandalf the Grey
peregrinator wrote: ↑Mon Dec 11, 2023 10:17 am
Anyway, I found Vigano's initial criticisms of Pope Francis to be compelling, especially as a pattern seems to have emerged of the latter protecting clerics credibly accused of abuse, but he's become a crank.
I agree. His tangents have become really difficult to even read or listen to. It's sort of like watching the Hornblowers get a little too high off of their own leaf.
Re: AB Vigano announces house of formation to 'resist errors of Vatican II"
Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2023 12:12 am
by BobCatholic
If we can get rid of the weaponized ambiguity, V2 would actually do good.
Re: AB Vigano announces house of formation to 'resist errors of Vatican II"
Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2024 1:51 pm
by Kage_ar
BobCatholic wrote: ↑Sat Dec 16, 2023 12:12 am
weaponized ambiguity
My new band name!!