The Catholic Message Board

Pope Francis apparently thinks that the ideology of Marxist socialism, which apparently to him is not an ideology(weird), should work with Christians to fight corruption and work for equality.

Which is also weird because Marxist socialism is literally one of the worst ideologies when it comes to being prone to corruption(see just about every Communist country that's ever existed) precisely because of its obsession with earthly power dynamics and it's innate pathological resentment.

It's also absurd to claim that Marxist Socialism fights for equality because according to the ideology the only ones who are peculiarly deserving of equality are those who are full-bore, class-conscious according to Marx's moral/ religious view of the "socialist man." Anyone else who has been deemed by the Party as insufficiently conscientized must be made to "suffer the contradictions" until they have attained to the "right"(i.e. Marxist) consciousness.

There's also the fact that Marxism is a Hermetic/Gnostic religion. And Gnosticism and Hermeticism are esoteric cults that explicitly put man in the place of God and are directly and diabolically opposed to God and the Catholic Faith.

The strategic polysemy and word magic that Francis employs to justify this is really something to behold. As is Marxism is some sort of objective good that's all about "sharing and caring" and wasn't at all responsible for mountains of corpses it's piled up in the last century.

https://www.vaticannews.va/en/pope/new ... ality.html

Yeah, there you, the Pope is the enemy, the Magisterium is the enemy, and the Catholic Church is the enemy, not only should no one convert, but everyone in the Church should leave immediately, your soul is in danger. Become a Born Again Bible Believing Baptist, it's the only way. That's the point you're trying to make, right? It sure sounds like it.

Oh by the way, what did the Pope actually say? Who cares, right? It doesn't matter.

https://www.youtube.com/live/JDa3OC4xP7 ... KbcM-wwsOI

Doom wrote: ↑Fri Jan 12, 2024 9:00 am Yeah, there you, the Pope is the enemy, the Magisterium is the enemy, and the Catholic Church is the enemy

That's three different things - of course the Pope can become an enemy, but the Magisterium is bigger than any one Pope, and the Church herself is more than just the Magisterium.

I encourage people to convert to Catholicism in spite of Francis's antics. Thankfully we're in the twilight of this Papacy - in a sense it's already over.

peregrinator wrote: ↑Fri Jan 12, 2024 9:53 am Thankfully we're in the twilight of this Papacy - in a sense it's already over.

You think so, Gracie?
He wouldn't be the first person to hang on for what seems forever.

If the Pope can't impose his will on the bishops then he's entered the lame duck phase of his Papacy. He can keep preaching but it's like Trump giving a speech outside Four Seasons Landscaping.

peregrinator wrote: ↑Fri Jan 12, 2024 4:54 pm If the Pope can't impose his will on the bishops then he's entered the lame duck phase of his Papacy. He can keep preaching but it's like Trump giving a speech outside Four Seasons Landscaping.

Here's where I predict that he comes unglued. Authority minded people can't stand being defied, which is actually Trump's motis operandi.

There are a lot of similarities between Trump and Pope Francis.

Doom wrote: ↑Fri Jan 12, 2024 9:00 am Oh by the way, what did the Pope actually say? Who cares, right? It doesn't matter.

He posted the link to Vatican News. The report is nothing short of alarming. Later, I'll watch the video you posted. At this moment, I don't know what to make of this. Did the Vatican's own news provider get something utterly wrong? If so, why hasn't someone been sacked and publicly corrected?

peregrinator wrote: ↑Fri Jan 12, 2024 5:02 pm There are a lot of similarities between Trump and Pope Francis.

Both love to hear the sound of their voices.

The Marxist tenet that each person is deserving of their share of the common bounty and none excluded, is very much in line with Catholic social teaching which emphasises the biblical "preferential option for the poor" and condemns material greed.

For all that can rightly be condemned in Marxism, that one is a standout Christian tenet.

peregrinator wrote: ↑Fri Jan 12, 2024 5:02 pm There are a lot of similarities between Trump and Pope Francis.

One I can't wait for his 'term' to end. The other I can't wait for his term to start again.

Stella wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2024 5:47 pm The Marxist tenet that each person is deserving of their share of the common bounty and none excluded, is very much in line with Catholic social teaching which emphasises the biblical "preferential option for the poor" and condemns material greed.

For all that can rightly be condemned in Marxism, that one is a standout Christian tenet.

The vast majority of error is a warped distortion of some truth - it's what makes them appealing. I suggest Hillaire Belloc's The Great Heresies on this point.

zeno wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 4:11 pm

Stella wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2024 5:47 pm The Marxist tenet that each person is deserving of their share of the common bounty and none excluded, is very much in line with Catholic social teaching which emphasises the biblical "preferential option for the poor" and condemns material greed.

For all that can rightly be condemned in Marxism, that one is a standout Christian tenet.

The vast majority of error is a warped distortion of some truth - it's what makes them appealing. I suggest Hillaire Belloc's The Great Heresies on this point.

The Church has always been careful to make the distinction between those warped distortions and the tenets that can be recognised as Christian. There was always and still is the danger that by rejecting Socialism without discernment might inadvertently cause Christian tenets to be rejected by default. Pope Pius XI in Quadragesimo Anno (1931), stressed that...

113. The other section, which has kept the name Socialism, is surely more moderate. It not only professes the rejection of violence but modifies and tempers to some degree, if it does not reject entirely, the class struggle and the abolition of private ownership. One might say that, terrified by its own principles and by the conclusions drawn therefrom by Communism, Socialism inclines toward and in a certain measure approaches the truths which Christian tradition has always held sacred; for it cannot be denied that its demands at times come very near those that Christian reformers of society justly insist upon.

114. For if the class struggle abstains from enmities and mutual hatred, it gradually changes into an honest discussion of differences founded on a desire for justice, and if this is not that blessed social peace which we all seek, it can and ought to be the point of departure from which to move forward to the mutual cooperation of the Industries and Professions. So also the war declared on private ownership, more and more abated, is being so restricted that now, finally, not the possession itself of the means of production is attacked but rather a kind of sovereignty over society which ownership has, contrary to all right, seized and usurped. For such sovereignty belongs in reality not to owners but to the public authority. If the foregoing happens, it can come even to the point that imperceptibly these ideas of the more moderate socialism will no longer differ from the desires and demands of those who are striving to remold human society on the basis of Christian principles. For certain kinds of property, it is rightly contended, ought to be reserved to the State since they carry with them a dominating power so great that cannot without danger to the general welfare be entrusted to private individuals.

115. Such just demands and desire have nothing in them now which is inconsistent with Christian truth, and much less are they special to Socialism. Those who work solely toward such ends have, therefore, no reason to become socialists.

The resistance to legitimate Catholic Social teaching today could stem from a non discerning rejection of socialism holus bolus.

Stella wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 4:32 pm

zeno wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 4:11 pm

Stella wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2024 5:47 pm The Marxist tenet that each person is deserving of their share of the common bounty and none excluded, is very much in line with Catholic social teaching which emphasises the biblical "preferential option for the poor" and condemns material greed.

For all that can rightly be condemned in Marxism, that one is a standout Christian tenet.

The vast majority of error is a warped distortion of some truth - it's what makes them appealing. I suggest Hillaire Belloc's The Great Heresies on this point.

The Church has always been careful to make the distinction between those warped distortions and the tenets that can be recognised as Christian.

No kidding, and no one suggested otherwise, thanks. The only point is that the kernel of truth is not enough to save the error. The rest is irrelevant.

Those of you involved in the part of this conversation that was removed both went over the line. Enough.