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Morality of swearing
Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2024 3:44 am
by Jack3
I'd asked this a long time ago, but I forgot the answer -
Is the use of swear words, the usual "four-letter words", sinful by itself?
I'm not referring to words related to God or blasphemy, and I'm not referring to the careless use of them in a situation that night cause scandal to others present. Instead I have in mind things like the F-word as an interjection.
Re: Morality of swearing
Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2024 8:51 am
by gherkin
I don't have an authoritative answer on this, but I'd say that in general while it may be an imperfection, it's not a venial sin. It's very hard to imagine a saint with a potty mouth, but even St. Paul used strong language when it fit the case. When he wrote "I count all things as dung compared to..." my impression is that dung corresponds more to a word that starts with s in English. Maybe that's an exaggeration, though. But if not, then sometimes it's not even an imperfection.
Keep in mind that what counts as a bad word is variable due to time and place. It's not the words as such that would be sinful to use, it's the intentions and ends involved in their use, together with the various cultural attitudes towards them. And there are micro-cultures. If you're talking with a bunch of Marines, what counts as strong language is very different than if you're talking with your gramma. Probably.
And some uses of cuss words can be unintentional, too. I recently used a pretty bad word spontaneously (because I may have some bad habits left over from my misspent youth) when I bumped into something. Hard to think it was sinful since I didn't really mean to say it...it just came out. The lingering habit indicates some problems I may have, but the particular use wasn't sinful, IMHO, and couldn't have been.
Re: Morality of swearing
Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2024 3:37 pm
by Obi-Wan Kenobi
Jone 190 II wrote:The words "cursing" and "swearing" admit of various meanings. By accusing themselves of these sins penitents sometimes mean
- profanity, or the use of sacred names in anger against some creature (venial sin);
- blasphemy, the use of such names in anger against God or in contempt of Him (mortal sin);
- abusive language, which is not a sin against the second commandment but which may offend against charity or is a sin of anger.
Re: Morality of swearing
Posted: Thu Feb 29, 2024 9:13 am
by gherkin
Jone seems to limit the discussion to the use of sacred names, though. Does that apply just to gutter language?
Re: Morality of swearing
Posted: Thu Feb 29, 2024 10:57 am
by Jack3
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 3:37 pm
Jone 190 II wrote:The words "cursing" and "swearing" admit of various meanings. By accusing themselves of these sins penitents sometimes mean
- profanity, or the use of sacred names in anger against some creature (venial sin);
- blasphemy, the use of such names in anger against God or in contempt of Him (mortal sin);
- abusive language, which is not a sin against the second commandment but which may offend against charity or is a sin of anger.
How do we know if it is a sub against charity?
Re: Morality of swearing
Posted: Thu Feb 29, 2024 12:35 pm
by peregrinator
gherkin wrote: ↑Thu Feb 29, 2024 9:13 am
Jone seems to limit the discussion to the use of sacred names, though. Does that apply just to gutter language?
Gutter language is (c)
Re: Morality of swearing
Posted: Thu Feb 29, 2024 1:08 pm
by gherkin
peregrinator wrote: ↑Thu Feb 29, 2024 12:35 pm
gherkin wrote: ↑Thu Feb 29, 2024 9:13 am
Jone seems to limit the discussion to the use of sacred names, though. Does that apply just to gutter language?
Gutter language is (c)
Is it? What's abusive about it as such?
Re: Morality of swearing
Posted: Thu Feb 29, 2024 2:58 pm
by Obi-Wan Kenobi
gherkin wrote: ↑Thu Feb 29, 2024 9:13 am
Jone seems to limit the discussion to the use of sacred names, though. Does that apply just to gutter language?
I agree that (c) is meant to include gutter language.
It can be a sin against charity if it will shock or offend those who hear it.
Re: Morality of swearing
Posted: Thu Feb 29, 2024 5:09 pm
by gherkin
Interesting. But then if it's not likely to offend, doesn't arise from anger, and isn't intended to abuse anyone, it wouldn't fall under (c)?
Re: Morality of swearing
Posted: Thu Feb 29, 2024 8:57 pm
by peregrinator
gherkin wrote: ↑Thu Feb 29, 2024 5:09 pm
Interesting. But then if it's not likely to offend, doesn't arise from anger, and isn't intended to abuse anyone, it wouldn't fall under (c)?
I don't think it's "abusive" necessarily in the sense of abusing anyone, or even any thing ... I think it could be considered an abuse of language itself.
Re: Morality of swearing
Posted: Thu Feb 29, 2024 9:44 pm
by Obi-Wan Kenobi
gherkin wrote: ↑Thu Feb 29, 2024 5:09 pm
Interesting. But then if it's not likely to offend, doesn't arise from anger, and isn't intended to abuse anyone, it wouldn't fall under (c)?
I think PED argued along those lines, back in the day.
Re: Morality of swearing
Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2024 8:07 am
by gherkin
peregrinator wrote: ↑Thu Feb 29, 2024 8:57 pm
gherkin wrote: ↑Thu Feb 29, 2024 5:09 pm
Interesting. But then if it's not likely to offend, doesn't arise from anger, and isn't intended to abuse anyone, it wouldn't fall under (c)?
I don't think it's "abusive" necessarily in the sense of abusing anyone, or even any thing ... I think it could be considered an abuse of language itself.
Nice point! But the context still matters when it comes to language use, I'd say.
Re: Morality of swearing
Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2024 8:08 am
by gherkin
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote: ↑Thu Feb 29, 2024 9:44 pm
gherkin wrote: ↑Thu Feb 29, 2024 5:09 pm
Interesting. But then if it's not likely to offend, doesn't arise from anger, and isn't intended to abuse anyone, it wouldn't fall under (c)?
I think PED argued along those lines, back in the day.
Maybe that's where I got these ideas from.
Re: Morality of swearing
Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2024 9:22 am
by Doom
In the wrong context, swearing is a sin against politeness, whether it is venial or mortal depends on whether you did it unthinkingly due to habit or intentionally due to a malicious desire to offend. And I specify "in the right context" because there are places, such as in the military, where if you want to be heard you have to use the f-word at least 4 times in every sentence or it will be as if you haven't spoken at all. I've noticed that people who spend a lot of time in the military tend to be compulsive users of profanity for their entire lives, once you get into that habit, it is hard to break.
And let me tell you a story, when I was an undergraduate and I lived on campus, there was a guy on my floor, whom he all hated and we called him "f-word", only not that but the actual word because that seemed to be the only word in his vocabulary. He wouldn't say "I'm going to McDonald's to get a Big Mac do you want anything?" He would say "I'm bleep going to bleep McDonald's to get a bleep Big Mac do you mother bleep want anything?" Every single sentence was like that. We all thought he was an idiot, no one could stand him, I heard several guys say "I'm not prude but that guy swears too much,it's ridiculous, I can't stand to listen to him talk." When you swear too much for first-year college students, you know you're going too far.