The Catholic Message Board

I've been trying to understand this theory and read a number of explanations of it's basic tenets.

Critical Race Theory, or CRT, is an academic and legal framework that denotes that systemic racism is part of American society — from education and housing to employment and healthcare. Critical Race Theory recognizes that racism is more than the result of individual bias and prejudice. It is essentially an academic response to the erroneous notion that American society and institutions are “colorblind.”

Critical Race Theory recognizes that racism is embedded in laws, policies and institutions that uphold and reproduce racial inequalities. According to CRT, societal issues like Black Americans’ higher mortality rate, outsized exposure to police violence, the school-to-prison pipeline, denial of affordable housing, and the death rates of Black women in childbirth are not unrelated anomalies... https://www.naacpldf.org/critical-race-theory-faq/

To my mind we've always been aware that the dominant group/race in a society naturally legislates towards their own wellbeing/survival. We may not have always thought it was a bad thing but we always knew it was and still is a thing.

While there are racist people, it is not systematic. If it were Obama would not have elected once, let alone twice.

The mortality rate of the poor is what is disproportionate. Whether you are black or white, if you are poor, you are at higher risk.

CRT is communist at its core. It is not about race, but about an economic agenda. Not everything is about race. If I can find the quote by Dr. Thomas Sowell, I'll post it.

although CRT is Marxist at its core, its proponents in the US are often (or always) very racist.

I found 'Awake, not Woke' by Noelle Mering to be a very good discussion about CRT and its roots.

https://www.amazon.com/Awake-Not-Woke-C ... 1505118425

anawim wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2024 9:55 am While there are racist people, it is not systematic. If it were Obama would not have elected once, let alone twice.

I don't think you understand what they mean by "systemic racism, It' is an incredibly nebulous term that can never really be defined, directly perceived, and certainly never eliminated.

For example, African Americans make up whatever percentage, say x of the population. But here is some profession over here, say underwater basket weaving, where the number of African Americans employed is a percentage less than x. Therefore, there must be discrimination. This is systemic racism, if not for discrimination the percentage of African American underwater basket weavers would be exactly the same as the population as a whole.

Likewise, the percentage of transgender African Americans in a wheelchair (this combination of supposedly oppressed people into one big category is called "intersectionality") in the overall population is z. Yet, the percentage of didgeridoo performers in symphony orchestras in Cleveland, Ohio who are transgender African Americans is less than z. The only possible explanation for this is racism.

Systemic racism is based on the idea that the only possible explanation for group differences or unequal outcomes is racism, there are no natural group differences, nor is the distribution of various group members random or the result of personal choice. If not for racism, everyone would be exactly equal in every possible way and there would be no differences of any kind between groups, and until that is achieved (which they call "equity" the equality of outcomes) there will still be systemic racism.

So systemic racism is designed to be
a. impossible to measure or perceive
b. impossible to ever eliminate

A permanent state of grievance is thus attained, as is the only real goal.

The same people who preach this CRT nonsense conveniently forgot the systemic racism when it came to hating Jews. You will notice the complete silence from the "anti-racists" with all the anti-semitism out there.

There is plenty of systemic racism out there (and it does lie at the heart of CRT). Affirmative action is a prime example of systemic racism.

Tired wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2024 10:00 pm There is plenty of systemic racism out there (and it does lie at the heart of CRT). Affirmative action is a prime example of systemic racism.

Affirmative action defines an antidote to systemic racism. Whether or not it is a wise or prudent action, it is a direct attempt to mitigate built in discrimination.

Thankyou for all the replies. I'm going to get back to them soon.

Doom wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2024 4:07 pm Systemic racism is based on the idea that the only possible explanation for group differences or unequal outcomes is racism, there are no natural group differences, nor is the distribution of various group members random or the result of personal choice. If not for racism, everyone would be exactly equal in every possible way and there would be no differences of any kind between groups, and until that is achieved (which they call "equity" the equality of outcomes) there will still be systemic racism.

I think that's quite a pessimistic overview, Doom and still assumes the basic superiority of western culture. Western civilisation (I'm not sure if that's the current term), has many good things to offer a multicultural society, but a major failing is in not recognising deep in the system, the real value of non Western cultural goods. I don't mean token 'good' either. But good that is necessary to 'life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness'.

Some of the responses have instantly jumped to the boogieman of Communism it seems, as trying to infiltrate the western system through CRT. By the same token, people recognise that real happiness isn't through wealth and property accumulation at the expense of others survival. To my mind, western thought is stuck trapped. Anything that tilts the system away from the highest ideal of wealth and property accumulation is akin to Communism.

Happiness in many less complicated cultures is in human connection ie family and wider community. In having concord with nature to the point of honouring it as godly. That will inevitably draw a reactionary cry of 'paganism' to the western mind but it's history that the first Christians did not throw away important festivals marking harvests and seasons etc. Western culture gradually rejected them as wealth accumulation inevitably distanced people from Gods gift of the natural world without which we'd have nothing.

I don't know if CRT will lead to the system being more open to recognising its flaws and antidotes that non western culture could build into it, but it's better to continue to question the supremacy of western culture than accept there's no other system.
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Western culture is superior

peregrinator wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2024 11:21 am Western culture is superior

I would agree with one caveat: Western culture is only superior because of the Catholic church. Without her, we would be no better, or worse, than any other culture.

anawim wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2024 3:34 pm

peregrinator wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2024 11:21 am Western culture is superior

I would agree with one caveat: Western culture is only superior because of the Catholic church. Without her, we would be no better, or worse, than any other culture.

Except the whole idea of being superior is something that the Church recognises as a source of abuses in the past and last year repudiated 3 papal bulls for that reason. Dum Diversas (1452), Romanus Pontifex (1455) and Inter Caetera (1493) which contain the basis for the 'doctrine of discovery'.

6. The “doctrine of discovery” is not part of the teaching of the Catholic Church. Historical research clearly demonstrates that the papal documents in question, written in a specific historical period and linked to political questions, have never been considered expressions of the Catholic faith. At the same time, the Church acknowledges that these papal bulls did not adequately reflect the equal dignity and rights of indigenous peoples. The Church is also aware that the contents of these documents were manipulated for political purposes by competing colonial powers in order to justify immoral acts against indigenous peoples that were carried out, at times, without opposition from ecclesiastical authorities. It is only just to recognize these errors, acknowledge the terrible effects of the assimilation policies and the pain experienced by indigenous peoples, and ask for pardon. Furthermore, Pope Francis has urged: “Never again can the Christian community allow itself to be infected by the idea that one culture is superior to others, or that it is legitimate to employ ways of coercing others.”

https://press.vatican.va/content/salast ... 0330b.html

The gradual realisation is that not only was the dignity of indigenous people not recognised, but their unique contribution to the common good was rejected.

Stella wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2024 5:12 pm

anawim wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2024 3:34 pm

peregrinator wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2024 11:21 am Western culture is superior

I would agree with one caveat: Western culture is only superior because of the Catholic church. Without her, we would be no better, or worse, than any other culture.

Except the whole idea of being superior is something that the Church recognises as a source of abuses in the past and last year repudiated 3 papal bulls for that reason. Dum Diversas (1452), Romanus Pontifex (1455) and Inter Caetera (1493) which contain the basis for the 'doctrine of discovery'.

6. The “doctrine of discovery” is not part of the teaching of the Catholic Church. Historical research clearly demonstrates that the papal documents in question, written in a specific historical period and linked to political questions, have never been considered expressions of the Catholic faith. At the same time, the Church acknowledges that these papal bulls did not adequately reflect the equal dignity and rights of indigenous peoples. The Church is also aware that the contents of these documents were manipulated for political purposes by competing colonial powers in order to justify immoral acts against indigenous peoples that were carried out, at times, without opposition from ecclesiastical authorities. It is only just to recognize these errors, acknowledge the terrible effects of the assimilation policies and the pain experienced by indigenous peoples, and ask for pardon. Furthermore, Pope Francis has urged: “Never again can the Christian community allow itself to be infected by the idea that one culture is superior to others, or that it is legitimate to employ ways of coercing others.”

https://press.vatican.va/content/salast ... 0330b.html

The gradual realisation is that not only was the dignity of indigenous people not recognised, but their unique contribution to the common good was rejected.

Mistakes do not infer inferiority. We are superior precisely because the Church is divinely inspired. We, and we alone have the grace of discernment. It's not that others don't have a glimpse of the truth, or a reflection of that reality, but that's not the same.

anawim wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2024 3:34 pm

peregrinator wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2024 11:21 am Western culture is superior

I would agree with one caveat: Western culture is only superior because of the Catholic church. Without her, we would be no better, or worse, than any other culture.

Although I agree Western culture is certainly superior with a great effect from the Catholic Church, it's hard to separate western culture from the Catholic Shurch. I guess one could make an argument that somehow the Catholic Church doesn't exist and somehow some belief in Christianity still exists (which would suggest Christianity is false but nonetheless) ... Many agnostic principles, at the very least upholding personal dignity, would make western civ superior to virtually all else.

Stella wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2024 5:22 am

Tired wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2024 10:00 pm There is plenty of systemic racism out there (and it does lie at the heart of CRT). Affirmative action is a prime example of systemic racism.

Affirmative action defines an antidote to systemic racism. Whether or not it is a wise or prudent action, it is a direct attempt to mitigate built in discrimination.

Thankyou for all the replies. I'm going to get back to them soon.

That is unequivocally false. Affirmative action makes decisions based on race and is without question racist. It is the very definition of racism.

Stella wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2024 7:00 pm I think that's quite a pessimistic overview,

It's not pessimistic, it is accurate, I spent 20 years in academia, I had to sit through countless mandatory seminars on this nonsense, for years, to keep my job, I had to mouth the words like a mantra, I know this nonsense like the back of my hand, I'm an expert. I know of what I speak.

anawim wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2024 3:34 pm

peregrinator wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2024 11:21 am Western culture is superior

I would agree with one caveat: Western culture is only superior because of the Catholic church. Without her, we would be no better, or worse, than any other culture.

I don't think Western culture can be separated from the Church - I don't think it's meaningful to talk about what it would be like without the Church.

anawim wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2024 8:38 pm
Mistakes do not infer inferiority. We are superior precisely because the Church is divinely inspired. We, and we alone have the grace of discernment. It's not that others don't have a glimpse of the truth, or a reflection of that reality, but that's not the same.

The need is to abandon ideas of superiority and inferiority pertaining to cultures, altogether. Every culture has its strengths and weaknesses of course. Openness to the strengths of non western cultures is the goal for more healthy society.

A small example that comes to mind in Australia is in the area of bush fire management. The colonisers knew from the early days that indigenous people had fire management skills developed over 40 thousand years but they stepped in and for 200 years did it their own way. It’s only been in the last decade or two that we’ve accepted that the indigenous way is far better for the environment here and have based fire management directly on that expertise.

https://www.klc.org.au/indigenous-fire-management

Tired wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2024 8:53 pm

Stella wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2024 5:22 am

Tired wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2024 10:00 pm There is plenty of systemic racism out there (and it does lie at the heart of CRT). Affirmative action is a prime example of systemic racism.

Affirmative action defines an antidote to systemic racism. Whether or not it is a wise or prudent action, it is a direct attempt to mitigate built in discrimination.

Thankyou for all the replies. I'm going to get back to them soon.

That is unequivocally false. Affirmative action makes decisions based on race and is without question racist. It is the very definition of racism.

No AA is a 'redress'. For example it is true that chemo is a poison but when it's used to redress cancer, it is a salve. Or it's like the action demanding access for black people to government schools back in the 60's. That wasn't racist. It was a redress to existing racism.

Doom wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2024 8:59 pm

Stella wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2024 7:00 pm I think that's quite a pessimistic overview,

It's not pessimistic, it is accurate, I spent 20 years in academia, I had to sit through countless mandatory seminars on this nonsense, for years, to keep my job, I had to mouth the words like a mantra, I know this nonsense like the back of my hand, I'm an expert. I know of what I speak.

It's legitimate for societies to ask themselves why are some cultural groups within it, more prone to poverty, illness, crime and violent reactionaries etc? The fallback explanation that they are inferior to 'westerners' can't be true when we know that God made all men equal. The Christian way to approach multicultural integration has to be based on that truth and that means acknowledging the systemic bias that needs removal.

Stella wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2024 5:51 pm
The need is to abandon ideas of superiority and inferiority pertaining to cultures, altogether. Every culture has its strengths and weaknesses of course. Openness to the strengths of non western cultures is the goal for more healthy society.

A small example that comes to mind in Australia is in the area of bush fire management. The colonisers knew from the early days that indigenous people had fire management skills developed over 40 thousand years but they stepped in and for 200 years did it their own way. It’s only been in the last decade or two that we’ve accepted that the indigenous way is far better for the environment here and have based fire management directly on that expertise.

https://www.klc.org.au/indigenous-fire-management

As I said. What makes us superior is our Catholic faith. You are trying to mix apples and oranges. We are superior because of Divine Revelation. Anything else is the heresy of universalism.