Harrison Butker College Graduation Speech

[Stella]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vB6sDCrH83g

I've just watched this 20 minute speech that is making the rounds of the Catholic internet. I think it would have been good without the politics and judgements. That ruined it for me. Why are US traditionalists 'universally' politically far right? The cringe moments were...

- the Covid conspiracy
- the women should only aspire to being homemakers
- NFP or 'Catholic birth control' as he calls it ... not from God
- criticism only of left politicians
- continual reference to staying in ones lane as he veers all over the road with judgement of others.

It's good that he has love of the TLM and it's trappings but the fact is there is more than one way to be a good Catholic witness and staying inside the bounds of Catholic teaching.

I personally found that speech cringey I'm afraid

[anawim]

He didn't say that women should only be homemakers. He praised it as the best that they will be. Same for fathers. Doesn't matter what you do in life, nothing compares to family. I thought it was a fabulous speech. Kudos to him.

[Stella]

Chris Stefanick who my daughter has followed for years, gives some sage feedback on the speech.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CoUdDThh5Y

[BobCatholic]

Fr. Ripperger talked about the dignity and beauty of homemakers. He talks about how women should not be career women - if they have children. He bemoans the evil of day care due to the 0% moral development of daycare. It is just warehousing of children at their expense.

The COVID nonsense was terrible - this is not a "far right" thing - lots of independents question it as well.

The "right" is not in control of our government. Criticize the left because they're running things. The right wing are just decorations.

[Tired]

Stella, what do you think 'far right' means?

[Doom]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vB6sDCrH83g

I've just watched this 20 minute speech that is making the rounds of the Catholic internet. I think it would have been good without the politics and judgements. That ruined it for me. Why are US traditionalists 'universally' politically far right? The cringe moments were...

- the Covid conspiracy
- the women should only aspire to being homemakers
- NFP or 'Catholic birth control' as he calls it ... not from God
- criticism only of left politicians
- continual reference to staying in ones lane as he veers all over the road with judgement of others.

It's good that he has love of the TLM and it's trappings but the fact is there is more than one way to be a good Catholic witness and staying inside the bounds of Catholic teaching.

I personally found that speech cringey I'm afraid

This is a dishonest characterization of the speech

Far from saying that women should only be homemakers, that is frankly a lie.

His actual words were "Now I know many of the women here are looking forward to having a great career", he then goes on to warn that if they focus on ONLY their careers they could miss out on being mothers, which is a much more rewarding vocation than any career, and that if they do miss out, they will probably regret it. He said that they could have a great CAREER and be a mother too....and when he said that, he received enthusiastic applause and a standing ovation FROM THE WOMEN THERE


And as far as it goes, it doesn't just apply to women either. I am a man approaching 50 who has never been married or had any children, yet all my friends from high school and college are posting on Facebook all about their spouses and children, or even grandchildren. This sometimes makes me think that my decision not to get married or have children was probably a mistake, and one that it is far too late to ever rectify. I will surely die a childless bachelor, but it didn't have to be that way, it is the result of choices I made. I could have chosen differently.

If you make your career the only thing that matters to you, you will miss out on the things that matter most in life. Life is very short, and you don't get a chance to go back and do it all over. And a college graduation is an appropriate time to say that, a good message for men and women both.

'My question is, why do you feel the need to mischaracterize the speech to criticize it? Don't you think the need to straw man your opponent before you criticize him, is a sign of a very weak position?

[Stella]

Stella, what do you think 'far right' means?

Far right is one who goes so far as to only conceive of black and white. For example a Republican who believes it is a sin to vote Democrat or a nativist who deems immigrants as innately inferior to them. A person who minimizes the financial crimes and frauds of the wealthy class while condemning the financial crimes of the poor as evil. A person who regards civil rights and social justice as pure socialism and not to be considered as legitimate issues.

‘Far’ anything denotes having gone far enough to the extreme to be unable to consider the good or value in their opposites position.

[Stella]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vB6sDCrH83g

I've just watched this 20 minute speech that is making the rounds of the Catholic internet. I think it would have been good without the politics and judgements. That ruined it for me. Why are US traditionalists 'universally' politically far right? The cringe moments were...

- the Covid conspiracy
- the women should only aspire to being homemakers
- NFP or 'Catholic birth control' as he calls it ... not from God
- criticism only of left politicians
- continual reference to staying in ones lane as he veers all over the road with judgement of others.

It's good that he has love of the TLM and it's trappings but the fact is there is more than one way to be a good Catholic witness and staying inside the bounds of Catholic teaching.

I personally found that speech cringey I'm afraid

This is a dishonest characterization of the speech

Far from saying that women should only be homemakers, that is frankly a lie.

His actual words were "Now I know many of the women here are looking forward to having a great career",

He states that as fact. Not with his approval.

he then goes on to warn that if they focus on ONLY their careers they could miss out on being mothers, which is a much more rewarding vocation than any career, and that if they do miss out, they will probably regret it. He said that they could have a great CAREER and be a mother too....and when he said that, he received enthusiastic applause and a standing ovation FROM THE WOMEN THERE

He didn't say that either. Here is the transcript.

I want to speak directly to you briefly because I think it is you, the women, who have had the most diabolical lies told to you. How many of you are sitting here now about to cross this stage and are thinking about all the promotions and titles you are going to get in your career? Some of you may go on to lead successful careers in the world, but I would venture to guess that the majority of you are most excited about your marriage and the children you will bring into this world.

can tell you that my beautiful wife, Isabelle, would be the first to say that her life truly started when she began living her vocation as a wife and as a mother. I’m on the stage today and able to be the man I am because I have a wife who leans into her vocation. I’m beyond blessed with the many talents God has given me, but it cannot be overstated that all of my success is made possible because a girl I met in band class back in middle school would convert to the faith, become my wife, and embrace one of the most important titles of all: homemaker.

She's the primary educator to our children. She is the one who ensures I never let football or my business become a distraction from that of a husband and father. She is the person that knows me best at my core, and it is through our marriage that, Lord willing, we will both attain salvation.

I say all of this to you because I have seen it firsthand how much happier someone can be when they disregard the outside noise and move closer and closer to God’s will in their life. Isabelle’s dream of having a career might not have come true, but if you asked her today if she has any regrets on her decision, she would laugh out loud, without hesitation, and say, 'Heck, no.'

https://www.today.com/news/harrison-but ... rcna153074

He goes on to call Natural Family Planning 'heterdox teaching', which following the dots ensures that a woman isn't really able to hold down a career unless she's naturally infertile.

On paper, I qualify as a traditional wife in that I chose to give up work and stay home with my children. I just didn't want them to go to daycare or unnecessary preschool options. At the same time I appreciate the female service providers who've helped me in that role. We can't have it both ways ie only have young unmarried women or spinsters in the workforce and all mothers staying at home.

[Kage_ar]

Makes me think of the diabolical lies believed by saints like Zelie Martin and St. Gianna Molla, or the diabolical lies believed by the ideal woman in Proverbs 31.

[peregrinator]

He goes on to call Natural Family Planning 'heterdox teaching', which following the dots ensures that a woman isn't really able to hold down a career unless she's naturally infertile.

I don't see any reason to assume he's referring to NFP, it sounds like he's referring to artificial contraception (that's what most people mean by "birth control"):

Heterodox ideas abound even within Catholic circles. But let’s be honest, there is nothing good about playing God with having children — whether that be your ideal number or the perfect time to conceive. No matter how you spin it, there is nothing natural about Catholic birth control.

[Stella]

He goes on to call Natural Family Planning 'heterdox teaching', which following the dots ensures that a woman isn't really able to hold down a career unless she's naturally infertile.

I don't see any reason to assume he's referring to NFP, it sounds like he's referring to artificial contraception (that's what most people mean by "birth control"):

Heterodox ideas abound even within Catholic circles. But let’s be honest, there is nothing good about playing God with having children — whether that be your ideal number or the perfect time to conceive. No matter how you spin it, there is nothing natural about Catholic birth control.

I've seen a couple of people making this defense but it can only be disingenuous. If he'd been talking about contraception he'd have use that common parlance. He was without doubt referring to NFP and the common argument (edited) that it is 'Catholic contraception'.

[peregrinator]

Sorry, but I travel in trad circles and the only people who talk like that about NFP are the terminally online.

[zeno]

I've been avoiding getting involved in this conversation but I am going to step in to say the term "rad trad" is a needless pejoritive that does nothing to foster respectful communication and will not be tolerated.

[Stella]

Sorry, but I travel in trad circles and the only people who talk like that about NFP are the terminally online.

11 years ago, Thomas Storck himself an adherent of the 1962 Missal, wrote about the history of anti NFP by some traditionalists.

https://crisismagazine.com/opinion/the- ... y-planning

He identifies a demarcation line between traditionalists which seems to boil down to those who submit to Catholic teaching, including those of VII and those who protest or decline submission to the Churchs teaching in the last 60 years. If not 'radical' perhaps 'protesting' traditionalists?

Your circles obviously don't include traditionalists who protest the Council but they are out there nevertheless.

[peregrinator]

Your circles obviously don't include traditionalists who protest the Council but they are out there nevertheless.

Now how would you know that? You might be surprised at how people move between "regularized" TLMs and the SSPX. In any case I don't find Storck convincing - his piece mentions a vague "they" rather than actually naming people or citing survey results. I think most people have had odd experiences, uncomfortable conversations, etc. with fellow parishioners - it doesn't follow that those odd experiences reflect any kind of movement or undercurrent of belief. And you will find people online, even in moderate-to-large numbers, who embrace those weird positions, but they are not representative of their fellow group members, whether that group be "trads" or "neo-Catholics". I don't, for example, think that online progressive Catholics' heterodoxies are representative of ordinary Catholics who attend the Paul VI Mass.

[Stella]

Your circles obviously don't include traditionalists who protest the Council but they are out there nevertheless.

Now how would you know that? You might be surprised at how people move between "regularized" TLMs and the SSPX. In any case I don't find Storck convincing - his piece mentions a vague "they" rather than actually naming people or citing survey results. I think most people have had odd experiences, uncomfortable conversations, etc. with fellow parishioners - it doesn't follow that those odd experiences reflect any kind of movement or undercurrent of belief. And you will find people online, even in moderate-to-large numbers, who embrace those weird positions, but they are not representative of their fellow group members, whether that group be "trads" or "neo-Catholics". I don't, for example, think that online progressive Catholics' heterodoxies are representative of ordinary Catholics who attend the Paul VI Mass.

A false belief doesn't have to have an official movement or leadership to find its way insidiously into the faith community. Harrison Butker for example just having a high profile can reach new or vulnerable Catholics with his ideas about what Catholics should be doing simply by using the term heterdox.

The Church has had to address the false belief about a Catholics obligation regarding childbearing, numerous times in the past.

[Essential Sacrifice]

The Church has had to address the false belief about a Catholics obligation regarding childbearing, numerous times in the past.

I need some help here Stella. I'm just not understanding what it is you're saying here so perhaps some concrete examples, actual "in print" sources explaining what exactly a false belief about a Catholic's obligation regarding child bearing, numerous times in the past, actually is.

He goes on to call Natural Family Planning 'heterdox teaching', which following the dots ensures that a woman isn't really able to hold down a career unless she's naturally infertile.

Certainly I'm not saying he is right as a Catholic though he believes we were put on the earth tp pro create and any attempt to alter that, ie: having sex intentionally to not procreate is wrong( heterdoxy) {counting your days or the use of condoms} but I only see him as that being the case he and his family... and absolutely not "following the dots" to a woman holding down a job unless she's naturally infertile, I think that a leap too far on your part.

This i think will not only add to the discussion but will certainly put me in a better frame of mind in understanding what is is you're saying. Thx

[Stella]

The Church has had to address the false belief about a Catholics obligation regarding childbearing, numerous times in the past.

I need some help here Stella. I'm just not understanding what it is you're saying here so perhaps some concrete examples, actual "in print" sources explaining what exactly a false belief about a Catholic's obligation regarding child bearing, numerous times in the past, actually is.

A couple of examples of the Church having to correct false beliefs are here with St JPII 1994.... https://www.vatican.va/content/john-pau ... 40717.html

2. It is ’ on this fundamental anthropological and ethical basis that rests the ecclesial doctrine of "responsible fatherhood and motherhood". Unfortunately on this point Catholic thought is often misunderstood, as if the Church supported an ideology of fertility to the bitter end, pushing the spouses to procreate without any discernment and planning. But a careful reading of the pronouncements of the Magisterium is enough to ascertain that this is not the case.

In reality, in the generation of life, the spouses realize one of the highest dimensions of their vocation: they are collaborators of God. Precisely for this reason they are required to be extremely responsible. In making the decision to generate or not generate they must be inspired not by selfishness or lightness, but by a prudent and aware generosity, which evaluates the possibilities and circumstances, and above all that he knows how to put the very good of the unborn child at the center. So when there is reason not to procreate, this choice is lawful, and it may even be necessary. However, there is also a duty to carry it out with criteria and methods that respect the total truth of the conjugal meeting in its unitive and procreative dimension, which is expertly regulated by nature itself in its biological rhythms. They can be indulged and valued, but not "violent" with artificial interventions.

And here... Fr Brian Harrison O.S. in 2005 Is Natural Family Planning a Heresy? https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print ... g-a-heresy

But there is a growing tendency among some to attack the teachings from the opposite direction. This group denounces Paul VI, John Paul II, and “the post-conciliar Church” for permitting and encouraging what is known generically as periodic continence or natural family planning. As is well known, these terms refer to the identification and exclusive use of the naturally infertile period of the wife’s cycle for having conjugal relations when a married couple has sufficiently serious reasons for wanting to avoid conception.

Ironically, the latter group often joins forces with “progressive” dissenters in claiming that there is no moral difference between NFP and the use of artificial contraceptives. Using the same epithet employed by many of their archenemies, they refer to NFP as “Catholic contraception,” claiming that if the Church were logically consistent, it would either allow all methods of birth regulation or forbid all methods.

He goes on to call Natural Family Planning 'heterdox teaching', which following the dots ensures that a woman isn't really able to hold down a career unless she's naturally infertile.

Certainly I'm not saying he is right as a Catholic though he believes we were put on the earth tp pro create and any attempt to alter that, ie: having sex intentionally to not procreate is wrong( heterdoxy) {counting your days or the use of condoms} but I only see him as that being the case he and his family... and absolutely not "following the dots" to a woman holding down a job unless she's naturally infertile, I think that a leap too far on your part.

This i think will not only add to the discussion but will certainly put me in a better frame of mind in understanding what is is you're saying. Thx

"ie: having sex intentionally to not procreate is wrong( heterdoxy)"

This statement is incorrect. Catholics are allowed to calculate their infertile days and have sex to avoid getting pregnant as well as to avoid the days calculated to be fertile for the same reason. It would only be wrong if NFP were used to avoid having children altogether but in reality anyone with that mindset is unlikely to bother with NFP.

[Kage_ar]

It would only be wrong if NFP were used to avoid having children altogether but in reality anyone with that mindset is unlikely to bother with NFP.

People may serious reasons to use NFP and the Church does not give a maximum time or require having X number of kids. It has been several years since I needed the documents that addressed this, back in the old "NFP Wars" on Catholic Answers forums. I will have to dig them up.

[peregrinator]

It's true that the Church doesn't require that one have a certain number of children. But I don't think using NFP to avoid conception is justified simply because "now is not the perfect time to conceive" (this is distinct from "now is not a good time to conceive because our finances aren't good") or "we have our full complement of children, thanks" (this is distinct from "we want more children but we just can't do it now between finances, illness, danger to health from pregnancy"). Do people have a right to judge other couples because of how many children they have? Of course not - but every couple using NFP to avoid needs to examine their consciences to make sure they are doing things rightly.