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https://www.theguardian.com/society/art ... ful-memory

A painful reflection on bullying by English actress Katy Wix. What do you think of her response?

Many of the greatest Saints were subject to bullies, the Little Flower St Terese comes to mind. Her submission and tolerance of her bully is regarded as godly but is that the only reaction that is godly?

As an adult, I would have forgiven because forgiveness isn't for the other person. It's for ourselves. Likewise, the measure that we measure out will be used to measure us. So, yes, always forgive. And if we don't have the grace to forgive, then we pray for the grace to forgive.

Having said that, in h. s., twice, people thought that they could bully me and get away with it. Mine was not a godly response. In fact I did my best imitation of Sr. Noreen Patricia. They never knew what hit them.

When I came to the church I thought it would be where I would meet new family, to be accepted, and to be surrounded by loving people.

Boy was I wrong. The young adults group leadership had cliques and countless mean girls, and an angry clique leader woman who hated me. I’d actually never experienced bullying until I came to Catholic Church. And cliques never bothered me until I went to a Catholic young adult group.

I would go to church events and learn whoever organized the event switched the time date and location and “forgot” to tell me about it. Every event was a screening process and a popularity contest. Countless ways of marginalizing me away from the core clique.

I have met people at church and they give me volunteer opportunities sometimes but my experience is probably nothing at all like the people accepted into the clique. They probably do things together, have fellowship, bible study, and they know everything going on around.

This disappointment has went on for several years and I have learned it is more common in Catholic Church than most are willing to acknowledge. I am open to searching for a new parish but my guess is every church is loaded with bullies and sheep that follow them, and priests that turn a blind eye to dysfunction.

This message board is really great in comparison, it’s like a dream come true.

One thing that I learned from my bullying experiences is that bullies are very insecure at heart, and they are lashing out from their own pain.

As a priest, can I comment on the "blind eye to the dysfunction" part? Sometimes we're just not aware; more often, there's not a whole lot we can do about it. It turns out to be very hard to change people. All we can do most of the time is try to nudge them in the right direction.

anawim wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2025 9:04 pm One thing that I learned from my bullying experiences is that bullies are very insecure at heart, and they are lashing out from their own pain.

I don't think that is true in general; some people are just cruel and cannot empathize with anyone else, and some people are just monsters by nature.

Doom wrote: ↑Mon Jan 13, 2025 8:15 am

anawim wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2025 9:04 pm One thing that I learned from my bullying experiences is that bullies are very insecure at heart, and they are lashing out from their own pain.

I don't think that is true in general; some people are just cruel and cannot empathize with anyone else, and some people are just monsters by nature.

I've taken the tact of "smacking bullies on the nose" (figuratively not literally). I'm not rude or impolite, but when called out (in a professional setting mind you, and yes, folks in business can be bullies) I have found bullies back down quickly - at least towards me. They are still jerks and generally don't get better. But putting them in their places works professionally. Heck, my boss who is tough as nails and amazing, reported a bully to HR. She put up quite a bit, but her team was being affected and she had had enough. Bully backed down then too. So the method seems to work in my experience.

Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2025 9:09 pm As a priest, can I comment on the "blind eye to the dysfunction" part? Sometimes we're just not aware; more often, there's not a whole lot we can do about it. It turns out to be very hard to change people. All we can do most of the time is try to nudge them in the right direction.

Reminds me of a comment you made a few years ago, "Grace works like water flowing over rocks." (IIRC)

To be honest, I was taken aback by your comment, but over time have found it to be true. Which does make me somewhat sad given the state of my children.

I don't remember ever saying that you might be thinking of someone else, but it may be a good saying if it means what I take it to mean, namely that it can take a long time to wear away the rough edges.

Doom wrote: ↑Mon Jan 13, 2025 12:49 pm I don't remember ever saying that you might be thinking of someone else, but it may be a good saying if it means what I take it to mean, namely that it can take a long time to wear away the rough edges.

I was quoting Father with my comment.

Some of the meanest people I’ve ever met are in Catholic Church and they are usually in some leader position. Especially in young adult groups because it’s a social club full of judgmental and socially power hungry women.

There is no denying that there is abuse in Catholic Church. We have all heard of sexual abuse from priests getting busted for it, but easily the majority of the abuse is perpetrated by women and it’s done socially, and they don’t get caught.

That's an interesting observation.

Conversations about it are numerous on the internet.

When I converted, I was advised by a new priest, a former Episcopal priest, that, if I came to the Church thinking that it was a social, moral, theological, peaceful panacea -- then I was in the wrong place. He pointed out that it was a mistake to become a Catholic to escape the issues in my former church or perfection from fellow Catholics -- that my motivation should be to seek and practice faith without regard to my perception of the failings of others. It made a great deal of sense and it was a pivotal moment in my conversion.

During a class in the conversion process, I was "bullied" by a substitute instructor. I ignored his comment, was silent for the rest of that class, and have not interacted with him again. I did continue and completed the classes -- which is what it was about anyway.

Stella wrote: ↑Mon Jul 08, 2024 4:56 pm Many of the greatest Saints were subject to bullies, the Little Flower St Terese comes to mind.

I wasn't aware of this. Did I overlook something in her autobiography?

Riverboat wrote: ↑Fri Jan 24, 2025 4:17 pm

Stella wrote: ↑Mon Jul 08, 2024 4:56 pm Many of the greatest Saints were subject to bullies, the Little Flower St Terese comes to mind.

I wasn't aware of this. Did I overlook something in her autobiography?

At the time, in France, they placed children in a class according to their abilities, and not according to age. She was very bright, and so was placed in a class of older children, who resented her for her high marks as well as for the fact that she was well behaved and courteous, garnering the label, "teacher's pet". The other girls excluding her and laughed at her.