The Catholic Message Board

“The traditional liturgy is a ‘cathedral’ of text and gesture, developing as those venerable buildings did over many centuries. Not everyone appreciates its value and that is fine; but to destroy it seems an unnecessary and insensitive act in a world where history can all too easily slip away forgotten.”

In an age of anxiety and unreason, beauty is thus a largely untapped resource for reaching people, especially young people, with the Gospel message of hope. There is much work to do, but honoring and encouraging the special calling of artists is a key part of this labor.

peregrinator wrote: ↑Thu Jul 11, 2024 8:47 am There definitely should be broad permission for priests of the Latin Church to celebrate the novus ordo for stable groups who request it.

There's no doubt that the traditional Latin Mass moved many Catholics to love God. There's also no doubt that the Ordinary Form has moved people to love God.

There definitely should be broad permission for priests of the Latin Church to celebrate the novus ordo for stable groups who request it.

Essential Sacrifice wrote: ↑Thu Jul 11, 2024 12:56 pm

There's no doubt that the traditional Latin Mass moved many Catholics to love God. There's also no doubt that the Ordinary Form has moved people to love God.

Exactly ... why is it that you would eliminate any tried and true path to God. Combined with the Ordinary form, are we not stronger, do we not reach more candidates for our faith, in unity ... using two tried and true paths yields twice as many new souls to God.

So what is the priority: evangelizing as many souls to God using as many paths as possible or cutting loose a mass of great importance to a substantial following of true Catholics for no apparent reason other than...

what? I don't know... why would any Christian organization simply remove a 1500 year old loved and adoringly appreciated Mass The reason for countless numbers of souls to God. How do you turn your back?

“The traditional liturgy is a ‘cathedral’ of text and gesture, developing as those venerable buildings did over many centuries. Not everyone appreciates its value and that is fine; but to destroy it seems an unnecessary and insensitive act in a world where history can all too easily slip away forgotten.”

peregrinator wrote: ↑Thu Jul 11, 2024 8:47 am There definitely should be broad permission for priests of the Latin Church to celebrate the novus ordo for stable groups who request it.

Doom wrote: ↑Thu Jul 11, 2024 8:31 pm

peregrinator wrote: ↑Thu Jul 11, 2024 8:47 am There definitely should be broad permission for priests of the Latin Church to celebrate the novus ordo for stable groups who request it.

Ideally yes, but the problem is that many of the "the groups that request it" tend to be filled with Sedevacantists and other crazies, this unfortunately has the effect of tainting the entire effort. Latin Mass enthusiasts have a serious "Star Trek convention" problem. There are far too many Taylor Marshall fans out there.

Doom wrote: ↑Thu Jul 11, 2024 9:25 pm I didn't miss it, I knew he was being sarcastic, but my point remains, the Latin Mass enthusiast community is filled with schismatics and Sedevacantists, and this is THE obstacle to its being offered more widely, and is the reason why even when it is offered, it ends up being pulled. Expel the crazies from the movement and 99% of the opposition will disappear overnight.

peregrinator wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2024 7:30 am And I'm not sure what you mean by "expel the crazies" ... how would that be accomplished? Refusing them the sacraments?

peregrinator wrote: ↑Sat Jul 13, 2024 11:39 am The traditional movement isn't the Church - it's not even a particular Church because it doesn't have any Ordinaries (even the bishops associated with the SSPX don't have jurisdiction) - so it doesn't have the ability to "self police". What purpose would it serve if, for example, a prominent traditional priest denounced/disavowed Taylor Marshall? He'd still be a member of the Church in good standing* (his own bishop hasn't seen fit to discipline him!), and I doubt any "aggression" would be resolved.

So I ask again - you can call it "self-policing," you can call it "expelling the crazies" - what does this actually mean in practice? How would it be accomplished?

*Heck, until recently, Viganò was a bishop in good standing! Now I think trads who have attached themselves to him are gravely mistaken, but what are they to do when his own superior doesn't take action for almost six years?

Stella wrote: ↑Sat Jul 13, 2024 5:16 pm Benedict XVI hoped for a more unified movement but that didn’t happen so there was only one way to go and that was to give the jurisdiction back to the Ordinaries with TC. It's not us old seasoned Catholics that are at risk of being led astray, it's the young and converts who need good clear direction about what the Church is and believes. The Church has to act for them.

Archbishop Cordileone wrote:I am concerned that a skewed impression of lovers of the Latin Mass has taken hold due to a few extremists on the internet. As this petition, and previous petitions, demonstrate, the Latin Mass has a curiously inclusive appeal.

Most who attend the Latin Mass also attend the Novus Ordo (known colloquially as the Mass of Vatican II). They know that to be Catholic means we must remain inside the barque of Peter, however stormy the seas. They plead not against the new Mass but for the form they love, that feeds and inspires them — indeed, to the point that they constitute a visible proportion of those who go on to become creators of new art and beauty in which the world shares and celebrates. This is why the Latin Mass has attracted the support of nonbelievers who understand its crucial role in the creation of Western civilization.