The Catholic Message Board

Interesting how SOCAS only applies one way

Double standard = corruption.

Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote: ↑Tue Apr 29, 2025 2:55 pm Correct. But goodness and holiness are not identical. One can be good in many ways, but at the same time not be holy.

So Adam and Eve were created good. Were they created Holy too?

When they fell, they lost God's grace and thus no longer holy.

You're taking a fundamentally Pelagian line of thought. We do not get to Heaven by being good. Period, end of story. One cannot be good without God's grace. Not true. One cannot be holy without God's grace. I know, we get to heaven through God's grace. I thought God's grace also makes us good as we...

Another factor is the catch-22 being enforced by employers, basically making degrees less valuable or worthless.

We hear people being told that they "got worthless degrees" when they studied liberal arts, which is a result of the catch-22.

Welcome

i thought that goodness comes from God's grace. One cannot be good without God's grace. I recall the saying “there but for the grace of God go I” Creating someone is an act of Grace. We have no entitlement to existence, God gives us existence as a free gift like Grace. Guess I was wrong about that. ...

I pray for his soul.
I pray for Pope John Paul III or Pius XIII or Benedict XVII to be elected.

Doom wrote: ↑Wed Apr 16, 2025 8:36 pm Do you know what the word "ontological" means? "Of, or relating to being or existence".

That's why I asked the question.

I notice that the usual suspects* who complain that "Tariffs costs the average family...." are 100% SILENT about how much income taxes, and other federal taxes cost the American family. That says volumes. * I mean like the propaganda media, those who have political agendas to push, etc.

Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote: ↑Mon Apr 07, 2025 2:51 pm Another point: We don't get to Heaven by being good. We get to Heaven by being holy, which is the result of an unmerited, unearned gift of grace.

What is the difference between good and holy? Only God's grace?

Doom wrote: ↑Mon Apr 07, 2025 2:52 pm Ontologically good.

How is this goodness different from saintly good?

Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote: ↑Mon Apr 07, 2025 2:51 pm Another point: We don't get to Heaven by being good. We get to Heaven by being holy, which is the result of an unmerited, unearned gift of grace.

If one doesn't have the grace to be good - they can't be good, no matter what.

Is this true?

Doom wrote: ↑Sat Apr 05, 2025 8:31 am What you are doing is the opposite of that, taking a word with many different meanings and senses, namely "good" and insisting that it can have one and only one meaning.

OK, so how am I supposed to understand goodness in the argument I posted?

Please walk me through that.

I love the Confiteor/Kyrie Eleison combination.

I hate the"...and grant us your salvation" one, my pastor doesn't use that one.

I was listening to a Catholic program, and a priest (forgot the name) mentioned that another way to violate that commandment, is to do evil in the name of God. Like televangelists who live like kings demanding contributions from poor widows, because "donating to him is like donating to God"...

If I have all the due goods of a human, can I go to heaven? A due good is something that properly accompanies something having a nature, so that we would say the "something" is not a full instantiation of that nature if it doesn't have it. Sanctifying grace is necessary to get into Heaven...

Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote: ↑Fri Apr 04, 2025 9:24 pm

What is the distinction?

Moral good vs. physical good.

Which good gets us into heaven?

The first 130 years of the US's existence, the Federal government was funded almost entirely by tariffs and no income taxes. All of a sudden tariffs pretty much went to less than 4%. Perhaps if we made more of the things we buy instead of buying imported stuff, imagine how many jobs that would creat...

Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote: ↑Fri Apr 04, 2025 1:04 pm Failure to draw a necessary distinction? Univocation? (I think I made up that word.)

What is the distinction?

No. It's the privation of a due good that makes something evil. The Beatific Vision is not a due good for any created thing. It might be cool to have wings like a bird, but that's not a good due to human nature and so it is not evil that I lack them. So how do I get all the due goods of a human? If...