Can the sexual scandals within the Church ever be resolved?

[Stella]

Some days I think the Church hierarchy is made up of human beings and these things will inevitably happen. Other days I genuinely believe that it is possible to have a Church that does shine with purity above other human institutions with Gods help.

I imagine a clergy that has no store of treasures and depends on providence to support their material needs. No temptation there for material gain and power. That worked for the first Apostles and disciples. Would that work today to draw more appropriate leaders and teachers to the fore?

[zeno]

You're just hitting all the fun topics aren't you?

[peregrinator]

There can't be a final resolution this side of the Second Coming but things can definitely be better than they are now. We've regressed under Pope Francis.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Read the letters of St. Paul. There's no point looking back at an idyllic past that didn't exist.

[Doom]

Although it took way too long to take it seriously (just as it took way too long to take Martin Luther seriously and way too long to take Muslim aggression against Christians in the Holy Land seriously and it took way too long to take Nazism seriously) there has already been significant progress in that there are few truly new cases. All the new cases discovered in the last few years are from decades ago often done by priests who are long dead sometimes for 20 years or more. You don't find very many cases among priests ordained since, to choose a purely arbitrary date, 1999. This shows that bishops are starting to take the issue seriously and are making diligent efforts to find potential abusers and prevent them from being ordained. Also, there are far fewer cases of accusations of abuse being ignored and a priest being transferred to a new parish after a wave of accusations at one parish. It is increasingly the case that one solid, credible allegation is enough to end a priest's career, which is how it should be. Sometimes, unfortunately, there is a bit of an overcorrection with priests being disciplined for what turned out later to be false or malicious allegations. Finding the sweet spot of never punishing the innocent but only the guilty is difficult, but the overcorrection, while wrong, is at a sign that bishops are taking the issue seriously.

[JanetM]

I imagine a clergy that has no store of treasures and depends on providence to support their material needs. No temptation there for material gain and power.

What's the definition of resolved?

Will the Church ever be able to make it up to the victims? No. Will the Church be able to eradicate clergical sexual abuse? No. Will the Church be able to drastically reduce the frequency of abuse? I pray so.

At any rate, no one deserves to be pedestalised, and that includes the clergy. I hope sincerely that they reach unknown heights of holiness that they may be able to best guide their flock under Christ, but at this point, I don't expect it of them either. Everyone is only too human.

[JanetM]

All the new cases discovered in the last few years are from decades ago often done by priests who are long dead sometimes for 20 years or more. You don't find very many cases among priests ordained since, to choose a purely arbitrary date, 1999. This shows that bishops are starting to take the issue seriously and are making diligent efforts to find potential abusers and prevent them from being ordained. Also, there are far fewer cases of accusations of abuse being ignored and a priest being transferred to a new parish after a wave of accusations at one parish.

I've been seeing this claim among Catholics, and I neither believe nor disbelieve it. I hope so, but I'd be cautious about being optimistic about it. It may very well be true, and that would be good if it is, but it's not something I'd personally use in defense of the Church. I'm certain that's not what you're trying to say, but from another perspective, it sounds like, "Hey, things are on the right track, because here's evidence that the Church has been working actively on this problem during their decades of coverup, and things would have worked out anyway even without this big blowup."

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

I don't think that's what he's saying. I think he's saying that the scandal caused things to get tightened up.

[Kage_ar]

Read the letters of St. Paul. There's no point looking back at an idyllic past that didn't exist.

AMEN preach it!!!

There is NOTHING new under the sun.

[peregrinator]

That there is nothing new under the sun does not at all imply that we can't take lessons from the past - nor that we have to take the wrong ones!

[Doom]

All the new cases discovered in the last few years are from decades ago often done by priests who are long dead sometimes for 20 years or more. You don't find very many cases among priests ordained since, to choose a purely arbitrary date, 1999. This shows that bishops are starting to take the issue seriously and are making diligent efforts to find potential abusers and prevent them from being ordained. Also, there are far fewer cases of accusations of abuse being ignored and a priest being transferred to a new parish after a wave of accusations at one parish.

I've been seeing this claim among Catholics, and I neither believe nor disbelieve it. I hope so, but I'd be cautious about being optimistic about it. It may very well be true, and that would be good if it is, but it's not something I'd personally use in defense of the Church. I'm certain that's not what you're trying to say, but from another perspective, it sounds like, "Hey, things are on the right track, because here's evidence that the Church has been working actively on this problem during their decades of coverup, and things would have worked out anyway even without this big blowup."

Wow! That's a pretty insane way of reading what I said, so insane that it borders on dishonest. It is starting to sound like you don't actually want the problem to get any better

[Doom]

I don't think that's what he's saying. I think he's saying that the scandal caused things to get tightened up.

I'm not even saying that, I'm saying that the bishops seem to finally be starting to this issue seriously. That's it, end of thought.

[peregrinator]

I think most bishops have been taking it seriously, at least where priests and deacons are concerned, for some time now. But as I said, we're regressing, the current Pope has not made dealing with the issue a priority as did his predecessor.

[Kage_ar]

That there is nothing new under the sun does not at all imply that we can't take lessons from the past - nor that we have to take the wrong ones!

Hoomans are so bad at learning the lessons of the past - remember, the past was the good ole days when everyone was righteous.

[peregrinator]

We don't have to look to the "good ole days" we can just look back 11 or 12 years ago. In fact I would argue that the current climate of moral laxity comes from nostalgia from the "good ole days" of 1968.

[JanetM]

Wow! That's a pretty insane way of reading what I said, so insane that it borders on dishonest.

Fair, I will grant you that. As I said, I knew that's not what you were saying at all. It's just my internal feeling whenever cited this particular impression, because from the looks of it, if the bishops had had their way, they would "fix" the problem with no one being the wiser.

Feelings ≠ fact, knowledge, or understanding.

It is starting to sound like you don't actually want the problem to get any better

Just pessimistic.

[BobCatholic]

The US Church has done an excellent job of eradicating the sexual abuse.

https://www.catholicleague.org/clergy-s ... egligible/

If the rest of the world can follow the US Church - the sexual scandals would go down significantly.

[Jack3]

Read the letters of St. Paul. There's no point looking back at an idyllic past that didn't exist.

Any particular part that you have in mind?

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Any part where St. Paul is telling them to stop doing something.

There's a picture I can't find right now showing a summary of your typical Pauline letter:

1. Grace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
2. I pray for all of you daily.
3. For the love of all that is holy, stop being stupid.
4. Timothy says hi.

[gherkin]

Sounds sorta right.