AB Vigano to be formally charged with schism

[Stella]

Archbishop Carlo Maria Viganò, former papal nuncio to the United States, has been charged by the Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith with the canonical crime of schism.

The outspoken former Vatican diplomat published Thursday morning images of his citation in an extrajudicial process, authorized by the congresso of the Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith’s members on May 10.

According to the citation, dated June 11, the DDF’s senior membership voted to proceed with Viganò’s prosecution via an abbreviated extrajudical process, as opposed to a full canonical trial, and have ordered the former Vatican ambassador to appear at the dicastery in Rome to answer the charges on June 20, either in person or via formal legal representation.

The charge of schism, which is defined by canon law as the “refusal of submission to the Supreme Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him.”

According to the decree of citation sent to Vigano, the archbishop is accused of making “public statements resulting in a denial of the elements necessary to maintain communion with the Catholic Church: denial of the legitimacy of Pope Francis, breaking of communion with him, and rejection of the Vatican Council II.”

https://www.pillarcatholic.com/p/vigano ... hism-calls

This has been a long time coming but not soon enough IMHO. He has been planting doubt in Vatican II and the validity of Pope Francis from the start and as a prominent figure the Church needs to officially pronounce this as schismatic.

[zeno]

IMHO

Exactly. Well, maybe NSHO would be more fitting but...

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

I don't know if +Vigano has crossed the line or not, but he's been tiptoeing around it for years.

[Stella]

On his personal website the AB has posted the body of his testimony presented today at the Vatican...

https://exsurgedomine.it/240620-attendite-eng/

This statement he has titled "Attendite a falsis prophetis". Translation... "Beware of False Prophets"

[Doom]

I don't know if +Vigano has crossed the line or not, but he's been tiptoeing around it for years.

This week it was discovered that Vigano was buddy buddy with Cardinal McCarrick during the time when Vigano claims McCarrick was secretly confined and under suspension. The evidence recently uncovered proves beyond doubt that Vigano's knowingly made false claims, if anyone was protecting McCarrick, it was Vigano.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/_3UxhIKaxh4

[anawim]

I put Vigano in a category of 'is he important enough to single out for more attention?' If this was a group of people, it might warrant a formal charge. This just draws attention to someone who had begun to fade into the background. Now they are shining a light on what amounts to a speck.

I thought there was an expression for this type of situation, but all that I can remember is "not seeing the forest because of the trees'. They're not only focusing on the trees, but the leaf on the tree; the veins in the leaf, etc. There may be better ways of expressing it.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

He is a focal point for a lot of the dissent against Francis. Yes, he's important enough. He's a fringe figure, perhaps, but of a big fringe.

[peregrinator]

The evidence recently uncovered proves beyond doubt that Vigano's knowingly made false claims

What were the false claims?

[Kage_ar]

There is allegedly a rogue ordination

https://www.pillarcatholic.com/p/wiscon ... irect=true

[zeno]

That article is an example of why this is such a mess. The "good guy" is a bishop who allowed:
"four Ojibwe women dressed in traditional garb and holding feathers did a choreographed dance in the sanctuary, accompanied by the playing of a drum, before a prayer to God, the Creator, during which the women faced east, south, west and north."
(See photo in article and/or YouTube video)

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

It's not a mess. +Vigano can be right in his criticisms of the bishop. That doesn't allow him to ordain people at will and set them up as hermits in another bishop's diocese. +Vigano doesn't seem to acknowledge any authority other than his own will, and that's the heart of schism.

[zeno]

It's the optics. People of a certain mindset use this to say - see he criticized Francis and he is being called a schismatic therefore if you criticize Francis you are a schismatic (regardless of how fair the criticism was or of the fact that the criticism isn't necessarily the action that could be grounds for a charge of schism).

[Doom]

The evidence recently uncovered proves beyond doubt that Vigano's knowingly made false claims

What were the false claims?

That Francis protected McCarrick Vigano did. He accused Francis of what he himself did. The only charitable way to describe what he has said and done is to suggest that maybe he is so completely senile that he doesn't know what he is saying.

[Stella]

It's the optics. People of a certain mindset use this to say - see he criticized Francis and he is being called a schismatic therefore if you criticize Francis you are a schismatic (regardless of how fair the criticism was or of the fact that the criticism isn't necessarily the action that could be grounds for a charge of schism).

I think worrying about the optics has backfired for the Church in recent history. The decision to keep quiet on abuse so that the rest of the Church isn't tarnished only served as very short term solution. Consequently it allowed the 'cancer' to grow.

[Stella]

Lifesite news reports via AB Vigano's own statement, that he didn't show up at the Vatican, didn't send any representation and doesn't intend to have any part of the proceedings. It's just all so very astounding.

https://www.lifesitenews.com/opinion/ex ... ism-trial/

[anawim]

I wouldn't trust Lifesite as a reliable source, but in this case, it sounds like him. I still think we have much bigger fish to fry. This one is not a hill I would be willing to die on. jmo

[Doom]

I wouldn't trust Lifesite as a reliable source, but in this case, it sounds like him. I still think we have much bigger fish to fry. This one is not a hill I would be willing to die on. jmo

I don't know what you mean, Vigino is a chief focus on anti-Francis and sedevacantist nonsense, and Vigano has been widely promoted by sedevacantists and schismatics such as Taylor Marshall (who should also be excommunicated as he has done great harm) , he is a cause celebre of the anti-Francis faction, this is case is not some minor issue.

[anawim]

I wouldn't trust Lifesite as a reliable source, but in this case, it sounds like him. I still think we have much bigger fish to fry. This one is not a hill I would be willing to die on. jmo

I don't know what you mean, Vigino is a chief focus on anti-Francis and sedevacantist nonsense, and Vigano has been widely promoted by sedevacantists and schismatics such as Taylor Marshall (who should also be excommunicated as he has done great harm) , he is a cause celebre of the anti-Francis faction, this is case is not some minor issue.

He's only a cause celebre if you pay attention to him and keep complaining about him. In Acts 5, Gamaliel said:

35 and said to them, “Fellow Israelites, be careful what you are about to do to these men. 36 [g]Some time ago, Theudas appeared, claiming to be someone important, and about four hundred men joined him, but he was killed, and all those who were loyal to him were disbanded and came to nothing. 37 After him came Judas the Galilean at the time of the census. He also drew people after him, but he too perished and all who were loyal to him were scattered. 38 So now I tell you, have nothing to do with these men, and let them go. For if this endeavor or this activity is of human origin, it will destroy itself. 39 But if it comes from God, you will not be able to destroy them; you may even find yourselves fighting against God.” They were persuaded by him.

I put this in the same category.
We NY'ers have been known to raise ignore to an art form. I will continue to ignore both of them. Just not worth my time.

[Doom]

I'm pretty sure the Popes used essentially the same logic to deal with Martin Luther “Ignore him and he will go away”, let’s just say it didn't work.

[peregrinator]

I think Taylor Marshall is a clown and comes off as being a grifter but I don't see how that makes him "schismatic".