Trump & Zelensky?

[anawim]

I've been following Trump for over 40 years. In that time I know that he loves to bully people by putting them in a position where he will get what he wants from them.
Towards that end, I have a feeling his treatment of Zelensky is a calculated move on his part. But for what purpose, I'm not sure. It may be just to give Putin a way to save face.

Anyone have any ideas?

[Stella]

Is this a development that should make us afraid for the bigger picture of world peace? I feel somewhat afraid after watching that press conference.

[anawim]

See that's where I think most people misunderstand Trump. It's all calculated to elicit a particular end.

Mind you, it's not how I would do things, but it's how Trump has always operated.

[Doom]

I've been following Trump for over 40 years. In that time I know that he loves to bully people by putting them in a position where he will get what he wants from them.
Towards that end, I have a feeling his treatment of Zelensky is a calculated move on his part. But for what purpose, I'm not sure. It may be just to give Putin a way to save face.

Anyone have any ideas?

No, Zelensky was acting like an entitled jerk, and demonstrating contempt by refusing to wear a suit in the White House, a fact which was pointed out to him by the press before the meeting, and he responded angrily and petulantly by saying "Maybe when the war is over I will wear the costume." This obnoxious comment came after campaigning for Kamala Harris during the election, and making anti-Trump comments on social media since November 5. Then, after all that, he enters the meeting and begins by demanding more money to fund his Forever War.

Exactly how many open expressions of disrespect and contempt from a foreign leader should a president tolerate?

Zelensky badly miscalculated if he thought that Trump was going to be a pushover like Biden who would just give him another blank check.

[anawim]

I've been following Trump for over 40 years. In that time I know that he loves to bully people by putting them in a position where he will get what he wants from them.
Towards that end, I have a feeling his treatment of Zelensky is a calculated move on his part. But for what purpose, I'm not sure. It may be just to give Putin a way to save face.

Anyone have any ideas?

No, Zelensky was acting like an entitled jerk, and demonstrating contempt by refusing to wear a suit in the White House, a fact which was pointed out to him by the press before the meeting, and he responded angrily and petulantly by saying "Maybe when the war is over I will wear the costume." This obnoxious comment came after campaigning for Kamala Harris during the election, and making anti-Trump comments on social media since November 5. Then, after all that, he enters the meeting and begins by demanding more money to fund his Forever War.

Exactly how many open expressions of disrespect and contempt from a foreign leader should a president tolerate?

Zelensky badly miscalculated if he thought that Trump was going to be a pushover like Biden who would just give him another blank check.

Agreed. Zelensky has been known to be disrespectful behind closed doors. But I can't help but think there's something more going on here. I just can't quite put my finger on it. Trump wants something. I just don't know what that is.

[Doom]

The Babylon Bee's spin on this story is the correct one:

"Zelensky Tries Bold New Strategy of insulting the People he is Begging For Money From"

That is a great one sentence summary of what happened.

[Doom]

I've been following Trump for over 40 years. In that time I know that he loves to bully people by putting them in a position where he will get what he wants from them.
Towards that end, I have a feeling his treatment of Zelensky is a calculated move on his part. But for what purpose, I'm not sure. It may be just to give Putin a way to save face.

Anyone have any ideas?

No, Zelensky was acting like an entitled jerk, and demonstrating contempt by refusing to wear a suit in the White House, a fact which was pointed out to him by the press before the meeting, and he responded angrily and petulantly by saying "Maybe when the war is over I will wear the costume." This obnoxious comment came after campaigning for Kamala Harris during the election, and making anti-Trump comments on social media since November 5. Then, after all that, he enters the meeting and begins by demanding more money to fund his Forever War.

Exactly how many open expressions of disrespect and contempt from a foreign leader should a president tolerate?

Zelensky badly miscalculated if he thought that Trump was going to be a pushover like Biden who would just give him another blank check.

Agreed. Zelensky has been known to be disrespectful behind closed doors. But I can't help but think there's something more going on here. I just can't quite put my finger on it. Trump wants something. I just don't know what that is.

What he wants is an end to the war, a war which is unwinnable by either side, which has gone on for 3 years, and which benefits no one except war profiteers.

[Highlander]

... to bully people by putting them in a position where he will get what he wants from them...

One man's bullying is another man's negotiating technique.

All in all, here's how I see it.

With the Russian invasions, the Ukraine, a corrupt nation, has had a blank check to receive economic and military aid ... plus monies to fuel various corrupt entities. The corruption was so widespread that the Bidens were involved.

Trump is basically calling for restitution. What is the Ukraine gonna give the US in return for all the money and stuff we have given them? Zelensky has been dragging his feet and has been waving the flag of victimhood in order to escape paying the check. Trump, using language to get his attention, is calling his bluff

HST, the Ukraine is a victim, Russia has practiced naked aggression with war crimes as a significant element in their conduct, Europe (as usual) has made symbolic gestures to succor the Ukraine while trying to maneuver the US into paying the whole bill (as usual) while having hissy fits because the US won't be duped (as usual). BTW, "Europe" is a misnomer -- Western Europe should be distinguished from Central and Eastern Europe. Some European nations get it, others are working diligently to maintain the status quo.

Zelensky is a big boy; he can take it.

[anawim]

What he wants is an end to the war, a war which is unwinnable by either side, which has gone on for 3 years, and which benefits no one except war profiteers.

Again, I agree that he wants an end to the war. But I also know that Trump is a master of manipulation. Just wondered what corner he's trying to paint both of them into...Trump is always trying to paint people into a corner.

[anawim]

... to bully people by putting them in a position where he will get what he wants from them...

One man's bullying is another man's negotiating technique.

All in all, here's how I see it.

With the Russian invasions, the Ukraine, a corrupt nation, has had a blank check to receive economic and military aid ... plus monies to fuel various corrupt entities. The corruption was so widespread that the Bidens were involved.

Trump is basically calling for restitution. What is the Ukraine gonna give the US in return for all the money and stuff we have given them? Zelensky has been dragging his feet and has been waving the flag of victimhood in order to escape paying the check. Trump, using language to get his attention, is calling his bluff

HST, the Ukraine is a victim, Russia has practiced naked aggression with war crimes as a significant element in their conduct, Europe (as usual) has made symbolic gestures to succor the Ukraine while trying to maneuver the US into paying the whole bill (as usual) while having hissy fits because the US won't be duped (as usual). BTW, "Europe" is a misnomer -- Western Europe should be distinguished from Central and Eastern Europe. Some European nations get it, others are working diligently to maintain the status quo.

Zelensky is a big boy; he can take it.

That would fit with what I read recently, that Ukraine has untapped rare Earth and mineral resources. Getting dibs on those resources would be right up Trump's alley.

[Stella]

If Ukraine were to sign the mineral deal without security guarantees from the US, the likelihood that Russia will abide by any ceasefire agreement is very low based on how it has ignored past agreements. Would we all agree on that point?

[anawim]

If Ukraine were to sign the mineral deal without security guarantees from the US, the likelihood that Russia will abide by any ceasefire agreement is very low based on how it has ignored past agreements. Would we all agree on that point?

Putin is definitely a loose wheel, and a nut to boot. But like I've said, Trump is a master at manipulation. Unless Putin has him assassinated (certainly a possibility), I guarantee you that Trump has him in a corner as much as he has Zelensky in a corner. So unless Trump ends up on the other side of the grass, he's got them both by the you-know-whats.

[Highlander]

If Ukraine were to sign the mineral deal without security guarantees from the US, the likelihood that Russia will abide by any ceasefire agreement is very low based on how it has ignored past agreements. Would we all agree on that point?

Not necessarily. There is a major difference if Russia attempts to seize Ukrainian mineral and if Russia attempts to seize Ukrainian/American minerals.

If the "Western" Europeans get off their butts and move troops into the Ukraine, then the story is very different. Whether the Western Europeans have to will to position troops and the ability to position and support them is another thing. The Central Europeans and Sweden/Finland and the Baltics have a long, long way to go before being able to defend themselves.

BTW, I think Russia is guaranteed to violate somebody's border soon. Perhaps, by absorbing Belarus. Say, next month.

[aussie_aussie_oi_oi]

Putin & Trump are cut from the same cloth - nasty and evil bullies.
Trump and his supporters can f*ck off.

[anawim]

Putin & Trump are cut from the same cloth - nasty and evil bullies.
Trump and his supporters can f*ck off.

ONE MORE WORD LIKE THAT YOUNG MAN, AND I WILL PUT YOU ON POST APPROVAL! ~ADMIN

[Stella]

If Ukraine were to sign the mineral deal without security guarantees from the US, the likelihood that Russia will abide by any ceasefire agreement is very low based on how it has ignored past agreements. Would we all agree on that point?

Putin is definitely a loose wheel, and a nut to boot. But like I've said, Trump is a master at manipulation. Unless Putin has him assassinated (certainly a possibility), I guarantee you that Trump has him in a corner as much as he has Zelensky in a corner. So unless Trump ends up on the other side of the grass, he's got them both by the you-know-whats.

That could be but while it's speculation, has to negotiate it's defense in this unpredictable environment. Any Ukraine leader would do the same.

If Ukraine were to sign the mineral deal without security guarantees from the US, the likelihood that Russia will abide by any ceasefire agreement is very low based on how it has ignored past agreements. Would we all agree on that point?

Not necessarily. There is a major difference if Russia attempts to seize Ukrainian mineral and if Russia attempts to seize Ukrainian/American minerals.

Would the US bother sending troops in against Russia even in that case? I personally don't think so.

If the "Western" Europeans get off their butts and move troops into the Ukraine, then the story is very different. Whether the Western Europeans have to will to position troops and the ability to position and support them is another thing. The Central Europeans and Sweden/Finland and the Baltics have a long, long way to go before being able to defend themselves.

BTW, I think Russia is guaranteed to violate somebody's border soon. Perhaps, by absorbing Belarus. Say, next month.

It's not that it hasn't been thought of. Macron proposed deploying a European military to Ukraine but the reality is they don't have the capability without the US of being effective.

[Signum Crucis]

What he wants is an end to the war, a war which is unwinnable by either side, which has gone on for 3 years, and which benefits no one except war profiteers.

Again, I agree that he wants an end to the war. But I also know that Trump is a master of manipulation. Just wondered what corner he's trying to paint both of them into...Trump is always trying to paint people into a corner.

Why would Trump torpedo his own deal? There is absolutely no advantage to do that. The deal he was negotiating was advantageous to the US, advantageous to Ukraine, and would hold Russia at bay. It was a win for the Trump legacy, a win for American taxpayers, a win for Ukraine, and a stalemate for Russia.

Zelenskyy's people pushed for that meeting, Kellogg advised against it because he didn't see any sign that Zelenskyy was serious about signing. He was right, and Zelenskyy decided to try to re-negotiate the deal in front of the media. He thought Trump would give in to his demands, but he was wrong. It was explained to Zelenskyy over and over that it was a three phase deal. He said he understood, then tried to force Trump to skip the other two phases. If you're looking for ulterior motives, you're looking at the wrong person. It wasn't Trump.

[Signum Crucis]

If Ukraine were to sign the mineral deal without security guarantees from the US, the likelihood that Russia will abide by any ceasefire agreement is very low based on how it has ignored past agreements. Would we all agree on that point?

No. We would be committed to securing Ukraine with no secured benefit to us while Zelenskyy waffles and procrastinates on signing the mineral deal, which he has already been doing. Did Russia attack anyone during Trump's first term? No. Putin won't attack Ukraine with American interests there. He's not stupid.

Zelenskyy can't account for a large portion of the money he's received from us. Why should American taxpayers keep giving him more, without knowing what he's doing with the money?

[Doom]

Putin & Trump are cut from the same cloth - nasty and evil bullies.
Trump and his supporters can f*ck off.

It is amazing that you think these kinds of childish insults and temper tantrums will either persuade anyone or prove yourself to be morally superior. You don't seem to realize that it is exactly this kind of fanatical, unhinged reaction that gave Trump such a big victory.

By the way, Australia is a fascist state which imposed the most restrictive and authoritarian COVID restrictions in the western world.

[aussie_aussie_oi_oi]

Putin & Trump are cut from the same cloth - nasty and evil bullies.
Trump and his supporters can f*ck off.

It is amazing that you think these kinds of childish insults and temper tantrums will either persuade anyone or prove yourself to be morally superior. You don't seem to realize that it is exactly this kind of fanatical, unhinged reaction that gave Trump such a big victory.

By the way, Australia is a fascist state which imposed the most restrictive and authoritarian COVID restrictions in the western world.

Yes and the states that restricted the most won big at the following election. We like to live and protect the most vulnerable in our society. One of the reasons our life expectancy is 8 years more than the USA.