I think that this bloke brings up some genuine concerns, like with his views on abortion and the manipulations at his crusades, but as a Hyper Calvinist, he also brings up a lot of false charges...
https://youtu.be/eLoqPPApjlg?si=sNjyxhxmDqMPvcGu
Was Billy Graham a False Teacher?
Re: Was Billy Graham a False Teacher?
This video shouldn't be part of an apologetics argument. The host is rabid anti Catholic and you can see that in all it's full glory from the 11.48 minute mark. Billy Graham is obviously not a false teacher for endorsing Catholicism. He was not a freemason. He's views on our relationship with other religions perfectly aligns with the Catholic doctrine. His concession that abortion should be extremely limited to the most dire cases is as conservative as a non Catholic can get.
Re: Was Billy Graham a False Teacher?
Billy Graham was not a Calvinist, he was a Baptist.
A good book about him is "A Prophet with Honor" by William Martin, an authorized biography. It is authorized in the sense that one of the main sources was Graham himself, but Graham gave him carte blanche to write whatever he wanted without interference. Graham, to give the author the freedom to express his opinions fully, never read the book, lest in doing so he be tempted to demand edits.
The book is largely sympathetic but makes some blistering criticisms where it was warranted. Martin believed that Graham chickened out on the issue of civil rights, even agreeing to address segregated crowds never once objecting. Graham justified that stance by saying that it would compromise the gospel to get involved with "politics', but that is weak sauce. Segregation and civil rights were not "political" issues, they were moral issues, justice and injustice, and freedom and oppression. Imagine if, in the late 40s or early 50s, Graham had taken a strong stand that he would not hold a crusade in any location where the crowd was segregated. Imagine the powerful influence that would have had if someone of his stature and influence had taken that stand,
Another failing, according to Martin, and I agree, was his love of being near power. He started cozying up to presidents very early and personally met every president from Harry Truman to Donald Trump (although he met Trump in the 1980s not while he was president). This compromised his message, especially when he called Nixon "God's candidate" in the 1968 election, so Graham became tainted by Watergate as well, and there is a damning bit of audio (which Graham said he didn't remember) where Nixon was making antisemitic comments and Graham agreed. Graham was not antisemite, despite that damning bit of audio, it seems that what he was doing was sucking up to Nixon by agreeing with everything he said, which is probably something he did with presidents a lot.
Now, as for his teachings. His simplistic "born again" theology was naive, and by Catholic standards probably heretical. But there is nothing contrary to Catholic doctrine in the idea of "accepting Jesus as Lord and savior", in and of itself, so long as you don't think it is all you need to do to be a Christian.
Martin records a conversation Graham had with an unnamed Catholic bishop where Graham led him through the sinner's prayer and a simple profession of faith and acceptance of Christ as Lord and Savior and the bishop said that "I"ve been a Christian all my life but I've never done that, and I found it spiritually beneficial."
A good book about him is "A Prophet with Honor" by William Martin, an authorized biography. It is authorized in the sense that one of the main sources was Graham himself, but Graham gave him carte blanche to write whatever he wanted without interference. Graham, to give the author the freedom to express his opinions fully, never read the book, lest in doing so he be tempted to demand edits.
The book is largely sympathetic but makes some blistering criticisms where it was warranted. Martin believed that Graham chickened out on the issue of civil rights, even agreeing to address segregated crowds never once objecting. Graham justified that stance by saying that it would compromise the gospel to get involved with "politics', but that is weak sauce. Segregation and civil rights were not "political" issues, they were moral issues, justice and injustice, and freedom and oppression. Imagine if, in the late 40s or early 50s, Graham had taken a strong stand that he would not hold a crusade in any location where the crowd was segregated. Imagine the powerful influence that would have had if someone of his stature and influence had taken that stand,
Another failing, according to Martin, and I agree, was his love of being near power. He started cozying up to presidents very early and personally met every president from Harry Truman to Donald Trump (although he met Trump in the 1980s not while he was president). This compromised his message, especially when he called Nixon "God's candidate" in the 1968 election, so Graham became tainted by Watergate as well, and there is a damning bit of audio (which Graham said he didn't remember) where Nixon was making antisemitic comments and Graham agreed. Graham was not antisemite, despite that damning bit of audio, it seems that what he was doing was sucking up to Nixon by agreeing with everything he said, which is probably something he did with presidents a lot.
Now, as for his teachings. His simplistic "born again" theology was naive, and by Catholic standards probably heretical. But there is nothing contrary to Catholic doctrine in the idea of "accepting Jesus as Lord and savior", in and of itself, so long as you don't think it is all you need to do to be a Christian.
Martin records a conversation Graham had with an unnamed Catholic bishop where Graham led him through the sinner's prayer and a simple profession of faith and acceptance of Christ as Lord and Savior and the bishop said that "I"ve been a Christian all my life but I've never done that, and I found it spiritually beneficial."
If you ever feel like Captain Picard yelling about how many lights there are, it is probably time to leave the thread.
Re: Was Billy Graham a False Teacher?
Okay, I finally watched that video, that guy is a crazy nut conspiracy theorist. And his definition of heresy is "denying even one single word in Calvin's Institutes".
And by his definition, not only would Billy Graham be a heretic, but also so would Catholics, Lutherans, Baptists, Methodists, and pretty much anyone who doesn't adhere to Calvin's Institutes.
Bah...this guy is not worth your time.
And by his definition, not only would Billy Graham be a heretic, but also so would Catholics, Lutherans, Baptists, Methodists, and pretty much anyone who doesn't adhere to Calvin's Institutes.
Bah...this guy is not worth your time.
If you ever feel like Captain Picard yelling about how many lights there are, it is probably time to leave the thread.
Re: Was Billy Graham a False Teacher?
And his assertion that Arminianism is "heresy'" and "a false gospel" are an indication that he is a hard core Calvinist who thinks a heretic is "someone who disagrees with even a single word written by John Calvin"Stella wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2024 1:21 am This video shouldn't be part of an apologetics argument. The host is rabid anti Catholic and you can see that in all it's full glory from the 11.48 minute mark. Billy Graham is obviously not a false teacher for endorsing Catholicism. He was not a freemason. He's views on our relationship with other religions perfectly aligns with the Catholic doctrine. His concession that abortion should be extremely limited to the most dire cases is as conservative as a non Catholic can get.
If you ever feel like Captain Picard yelling about how many lights there are, it is probably time to leave the thread.
Re: Was Billy Graham a False Teacher?
I knew about the tactics at his crusades, but I didn't know that he supported abortion under certain circumstances...
Re: Was Billy Graham a False Teacher?
I ain't watching the video, but I don't know how much stock to put in claims that Graham was not firmly pro-life. This is not because I am claiming he was firmly pro-life--I have no idea--but rather because evangelicals up until at least the early 80's tended just not to see abortion for what it really is. So if he was wishy-washy, he was far from alone. That's a weakness in his thinking, of course, but it's got to be contextualized.
Re: Was Billy Graham a False Teacher?
Other than Catholics, pretty much every pro-lifer holds to some exceptions, usually given as "rape, insect and the life of the mother", and according to John Paul II in his encyclical "The Gospel of Life" it is acceptable for a Catholic to support an abortion law which still allows abortion provided the law makes it better in some way. The usual exceptions "rape, incest, and the life of the mother" constitute less than 1% of all abortions. A law that eliminated 99% of abortions would be a significant improvement of unlimited abortion on demand for absolutely any reason, which is what exists now. So, no, I don't think it is fair to say Graham wasn't pro-life.
If you ever feel like Captain Picard yelling about how many lights there are, it is probably time to leave the thread.
Re: Was Billy Graham a False Teacher?
The video contains the same old nonsense fundamentalist objections to Graham that have been made against him since he broke from Bob Jones Sr and the early fundamentalist movement in the early 40s, with a new one "he wasn't a 5-point Calvinist", which no one except the most radical 5 point Calvinists cares about.gherkin wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2024 4:13 pm I ain't watching the video, but I don't know how much stock to put in claims that Graham was not firmly pro-life. This is not because I am claiming he was firmly pro-life--I have no idea--but rather because evangelicals up until at least the early 80s tended just not to see abortion for what it really is. So if he was wishy-washy, he was far from alone. That's a weakness in his thinking, of course, but it's got to be contextualized.
If you ever feel like Captain Picard yelling about how many lights there are, it is probably time to leave the thread.
Re: Was Billy Graham a False Teacher?
"...I didn't know that he [Billy Graham] supported abortion under certain circumstances..." quoting brother ProZak.
I have learned from watching several news sources that the topic of abortion, the reality for women within the situation of abortion, is a lot larger and a lot more complicated than I ever thought before.
Current political decisions, real-life practices, and real-life consequences for women -- if I were a judge, I would have to recuse myself.
The topic, the situation, for women, is much, much larger than simply the killing of unborn babies.
I have learned from watching several news sources that the topic of abortion, the reality for women within the situation of abortion, is a lot larger and a lot more complicated than I ever thought before.
Current political decisions, real-life practices, and real-life consequences for women -- if I were a judge, I would have to recuse myself.
The topic, the situation, for women, is much, much larger than simply the killing of unborn babies.
Re: Was Billy Graham a False Teacher?
Probably should be a separate thread but... Why would you 'recuse' yourself? And are there actual real people who do not think the topic is 'larger than simply the killing of unborn babies'?RolandJS wrote: ↑Fri Mar 28, 2025 6:49 am "...I didn't know that he [Billy Graham] supported abortion under certain circumstances..." quoting brother ProZak.
I have learned from watching several news sources that the topic of abortion, the reality for women within the situation of abortion, is a lot larger and a lot more complicated than I ever thought before.
Current political decisions, real-life practices, and real-life consequences for women -- if I were a judge, I would have to recuse myself.
The topic, the situation, for women, is much, much larger than simply the killing of unborn babies.
Re: Was Billy Graham a False Teacher?
Unread post by Tired » Sat Mar 29, 2025 9:11 am
RolandJS wrote: ↑Fri Mar 28, 2025 5:49 am
"...I didn't know that he [Billy Graham] supported abortion under certain circumstances..." quoting brother ProZak.
I have learned from watching several news sources that the topic of abortion, the reality for women within the situation of abortion, is a lot larger and a lot more complicated than I ever thought before.
Current political decisions, real-life practices, and real-life consequences for women -- if I were a judge, I would have to recuse myself.
The topic, the situation, for women, is much, much larger than simply the killing of unborn babies.
Probably should be a separate thread but... Why would you 'recuse' yourself? And are there actual real people who do not think the topic is 'larger than simply the killing of unborn babies'?
@Tired -- I am reading several Christian Ethics books to become very familiar with the topic of Abortion. At the moment, I do not have a comprehensive understanding of this topic. I am not sure I understand your second question.
RolandJS wrote: ↑Fri Mar 28, 2025 5:49 am
"...I didn't know that he [Billy Graham] supported abortion under certain circumstances..." quoting brother ProZak.
I have learned from watching several news sources that the topic of abortion, the reality for women within the situation of abortion, is a lot larger and a lot more complicated than I ever thought before.
Current political decisions, real-life practices, and real-life consequences for women -- if I were a judge, I would have to recuse myself.
The topic, the situation, for women, is much, much larger than simply the killing of unborn babies.
Probably should be a separate thread but... Why would you 'recuse' yourself? And are there actual real people who do not think the topic is 'larger than simply the killing of unborn babies'?
@Tired -- I am reading several Christian Ethics books to become very familiar with the topic of Abortion. At the moment, I do not have a comprehensive understanding of this topic. I am not sure I understand your second question.