The forum for specific questions and inquiries into the Catholic faith. Think of this as an online RCIA session. No debating allowed on this forum. Responses must reflect the teachings of the Catholic Church.
An evangelical Protestant friend of mine who has a podcast and is somewhat of a "presence" among fundamentalists posted this question on FB today
Honest sincere question.
How is Martin Luther perceived in the Catholic Church today?
Do I have Catholics on this page that would graciously give insight on the reformation from a Catholic’s point of view?
Since I know her genuineness of heart and truly believe her sincerity in seeking the Catholic point of view, I tried to respond honestly, but as charitably as possible. I want to engage her and encourage her to think, not antagonize her. Here's what I wound up saying after a bit of thought and prayer.
I don't pretend to be an expert on the subject, but most of what I hear from Catholic apologists on the subject of Martin Luther portray him as a tragic figure who instigated the second greatest schism in the history of Christianity (the first being the Great Schism between Catholicism and Orthodoxy). The most frequent criticism of Luther I hear is the fact that he removed seven books (and portions of others) from the Holy Scriptures because they "didn't agree" with his point of view. There is so much history, beauty, and truth in what Protestants call "the apocrypha" that they miss out on. We Catholics pray continually for the reunification of the faithful into Christ's One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.
Just to contribute my own wonderings I often think that Martin Luther would be looking down horrified by how Christianity splintered outside the Church after he left. You don’t imagine that that is what he envisaged although in retrospect it was inevitable.
The evidence is pretty clear that he suffered from scrupulosity.
When he and Zwingli couldn't agree about the Eucharist, that should have been it for the Reformation right there, or at least Luther's part in it. But like many others, he was stubbornly convinced that he was right.
Stella wrote: ↑Mon Feb 05, 2024 6:50 pm
Just to contribute my own wonderings I often think that Martin Luther would be looking down horrified by how Christianity splintered outside the Church after he left. You don’t imagine that that is what he envisaged although in retrospect it was inevitable.
After he left? He was horrified by the splintering of the Reformation in his own time, Zwingli, Calvin, Thomas Munster, Menno Simons, Henry VIII and more all rejected his vision of the Reformation in favor of their own. The Reformation was already fracturing and the religious wars of the Reformation were already starting. It started with the Peasant's War in 1524 and eventually became a gigantic world war that would be known to history as the Thirty Years War that devastated all of Europe a century later, and Luther was horrified by all of it.
If you ever feel like Captain Picard yelling about how many lights there are, it is probably time to leave the thread.
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote: ↑Mon Feb 05, 2024 7:15 pm
The evidence is pretty clear that he suffered from scrupulosity.
When he and Zwingli couldn't agree about the Eucharist, that should have been it for the Reformation right there, or at least Luther's part in it. But like many others, he was stubbornly convinced that he was right.
Though psychoanalysis 400+ years after the fact is virtually impossible, psychologists who have studied Luther have suggested he suffered from everything from obsessive-compulsive disorder (hence his extreme scrupulosity) to bipolar disorder (hence his tendency to alternate between periods of depression and despair and manic bouts writing dozens of tracts on as many issues in less than a weak.)
If you ever feel like Captain Picard yelling about how many lights there are, it is probably time to leave the thread.
If you combine all 7(?) I think of the Catholic Inquisitions they don't add up to the death and destruction of the faithful Christians who died at the hands of some of the most evil people in all religious history... It's a longish read but one you'll never forget, that you probably didn't know about.
After he left? He was horrified by the splintering of the Reformation in his own time, Zwingli, Calvin, Thomas Munster, Menno Simons, Henry VIII and more all rejected his vision of the Reformation in favor of their own. The Reformation was already fracturing and the religious wars of the Reformation were already starting. It started with the Peasant's War in 1524 and eventually became a gigantic world war that would be known to history as the Thirty Years War that devastated all of Europe a century later, and Luther was horrified by all of it.
Doom I would say is absolutely spot on, but this was only a small part of the overall consequences of the Protectant Inquisition
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote: ↑Mon Feb 05, 2024 5:08 pm
The most frequent criticism is that he substituted his judgment for that of the Church.
I think Fr. summed it up perfectly.
I get some of his problems about doctrines X, Y, or Z and the consequences of them mis-applied, taught, acted, etc. But, he assumed he knew better than 1400+ years of Church teaching from brilliant theologians and doctors (Augustine, Thomas Aquinas, Gregory the Great, Jerome, etc.) who came before him. And rather than exhibit humility and effect change from the inside, he had a temper tantrum and claimed, basically, he knew better than anyone else.
