Pope Pius X: "Love the Pope"

[Stella]

I came across this 2012 article today from the Rorate Caeli organisation. A lecture by Pope Pius X to his clergy regarding the wanton dissent happening in 1912. His pleas seems almost desperate to reiterate a most fundamental tenet of Catholicism...

It seems incredible, and is even painful, that there be priests to whom this recommendation must be made, but we are regrettably in our age in this hard, unhappy, situation of having to tell priests: love the Pope!

And how must the Pope be loved? Non verbo neque lingua, sed opere et veritate. [Not in word, nor in tongue, but in deed, and in truth - 1 Jn iii, 18] When one loves a person, one tries to adhere in everything to his thoughts, to fulfill his will, to perform his wishes. And if Our Lord Jesus Christ said of Himself, "si quis diligit me, sermonem meum servabit," [if any one love me, he will keep my word - Jn xiv, 23] therefore, in order to demonstrate our love for the Pope, it is necessary to obey him.

Therefore, when we love the Pope, there are no discussions regarding what he orders or demands, or up to what point obedience must go, and in what things he is to be obeyed; when we love the Pope, we do not say that he has not spoken clearly enough, almost as if he were forced to repeat to the ear of each one the will clearly expressed so many times not only in person, but with letters and other public documents; we do not place his orders in doubt, adding the facile pretext of those unwilling to obey - that it is not the Pope who commands, but those who surround him; we do not limit the field in which he might and must exercise his authority; we do not set above the authority of the Pope that of other persons, however learned, who dissent from the Pope, who, even though learned, are not holy, because whoever is holy cannot dissent from the Pope.

This is the cry of a heart filled with pain, that with deep sadness I express, not for your sake, dear brothers, but to deplore, with you, the conduct of so many priests, who not only allow themselves to debate and criticize the wishes of the Pope, but are not embarrassed to reach shameless and blatant disobedience, with so much scandal for the good and with so great damage to souls.

Allocution Vi ringrazio to priests on the 50th anniversary of the Apostolic Union November 18, 1912
https://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2012/ ... s-for.html

I have to say, this is the Catholicism that I've always known. Always trust the Church.

[peregrinator]

More painful still is when Popes contradict one another and sow confusion among the faithful.

[ProZak]

More painful still is when Popes contradict one another and sow confusion among the faithful.

Thought that was impossible?

[Stella]

More painful still is when Popes contradict one another and sow confusion among the faithful.

How often has that happened in 2000 years?

[peregrinator]

More painful still is when Popes contradict one another and sow confusion among the faithful.

Thought that was impossible?

Not impossible, as Pope Francis has demonstrated.

[gherkin]

More painful still is when Popes contradict one another and sow confusion among the faithful.

Thought that was impossible?

Impossible for a pope to contradict another pope when both statements have been made ex cathedra or are otherwise authoritative expressions of Catholic dogma. Not at all impossible when a confused pope decides, let's say, to amend the Catechism with an expression of his personal opinion. That this is not impossible is, unfortunately, demonstrated by the actions of the current pope. To pick just one example among many similar possibilities.

[Essential Sacrifice]

Thought that was impossible?

Thought this was tongue in cheek ... I guess not? Here's a response that covers the matter pretty thoroughly ...

https://www.lifesitenews.com/opinion/pr ... mpaign=usa

This should help in regards to if it's possible one Pope contradicts another... even contradicting an entire Magisterium, even 2000 years of Catholic faith

[ProZak]

Seriously, some of you believe that Pope Francis is teaching heresy?

[Essential Sacrifice]

Seriously, some of you believe that Pope Francis is teaching heresy?

ProZak my friend. I seriously do not think you read the article I supplied,... as such here are samples of heresy according to some of the most learned scholars in Catholic school of thought, per this article https://www.lifesitenews.com/opinion/pr ... mpaign=usa

O Dear Fathers, on September 5, 2016, with the bishops of the Pastoral Region of Buenos Aires, Francis stated that “the commitment to live in continence [chastity]” is an “option.” When have we seen a pope make such a statement? Never.

On December 10, 2018, together with Cardinal Luis Francisco Ladaria Ferrer, S.J., and Archbishop Giacomo Morandi, Francis accepted the practice of hysterectomy (removal of the uterus) when the state of the uterus poses no present or future danger to the health of a fertile woman who has sexual relations and when a group of medical experts certify that all her children will die before birth. When have we seen a pope accept such a practice? Never.

On December 21, 2018, Francis said “one is not born a saint, one becomes one, and this also applies” to “Our Lady.” When have we seen a pope reject the original sanctity of Mary? Never.

On February 4, 2019, Francis declared that “the pluralism and the diversity of religions… are a wise divine will.” When have we seen a pope make such a declaration that attributes to God’s positive will the existence of religions that practice evil or sin (idolatry, human sacrifice, prostitution, etc.)? Never.

On October 21, 2020, Francis told humanity that “what we have to do is a civil coexistence law” for homosexual relationships. When have we seen a pope make such a proposal to humanity? Never.

On September 15, 2021, Francis authorized all publicly pro-abortion Catholic politicians to receive the Holy Eucharist without the need for them to reject their promotion of abortion. When have we seen a pope give such authorization? Never.

On December 18, 2023, Francis asked priests to carry out “blessings for couples in irregular situations and for couples of the same sex.” When have we seen a pope make such a request to priests? Never.

His canonical infractions are numerous, as he has acted against canons 212§1, 276§1, 351§1, 378§1, 598§2, 705, 749, 750§1, 751, 752, 915, 916, 1347§2, 1364, 3 1365, 1368, and 1391. According to canon 1364: “a heretic… incurs a latae sententiae excommunication… If a long-standing contempt or the gravity of scandal calls for it… dismissal from the clerical state.”

Who can dismiss Francis from the clerical state since he is officially pope? No one can. Can the College of Cardinals and the College of Bishops choose a new pope when they see that for eight years Francis has placed himself outside the communion of the Church because of the many heresies he refuses to rectify? Francisco Suárez (1548-1617), one of the greatest theologians of the Society of Jesus, is totally in favor[14]
.
Finally, let us consider canon 1391: “The following are to be punished… a person who, in a public ecclesiastical document, asserts something false.” Pope Francis has affirmed the false in at least three public ecclesiastical documents: Amoris laetitia (2016), Hysterectomy (2018), Fiducia supplicans (2023).

Apologies for the length of this but it is really only the tip of the iceberg, There is more to this pontificate than meets the eye that is truly shredding our Church and faith, disabling priests, confusing the laity and undermining the 2000 years of Catholic tradition ... all in only 8 years of (service?)

[Stella]

On December 10, 2018, together with Cardinal Luis Francisco Ladaria Ferrer, S.J., and Archbishop Giacomo Morandi, Francis accepted the practice of hysterectomy (removal of the uterus) when the state of the uterus poses no present or future danger to the health of a fertile woman who has sexual relations and when a group of medical experts certify that all her children will die before birth. When have we seen a pope accept such a practice? Never.

What the heck! This is why we need women in consultation. What normal woman chooses a hysterectomy as birth control knowing all the consequences of such major surgery! I won't go into the gory details for why women have hysterectomy's. When a Pope or any man has experienced such things, then they can pontificate about why women just need to endure.

[Essential Sacrifice]

Don't be angry Stella...

I was under the impression, because women were doing it ( or else why bring it up in the first place) the Pope and those others were basically allowing for birth control without a pill or any other destructive device as a "pre" birth control so they wouldn't need an abortion(s).

I won't go into the gory details for why women have hysterectomy's. When a Pope or any man has experienced such things, then they can pontificate about why women just need to endure

Oh, I wish you would... It's not just why women must go through legitimately required hysterectomy's (very sadly). Extreme? Yes I would say so but why else would a woman intentionally remove a perfectly healthy uterus? Is there another reason you can come up with to explain this behavior? Is the removal of a human child ,an abortion, less horrible both physically and perhaps especially mentally? I truly don't think this has anything to do with a man's, any man's, perception of the tragic experience (how could we possibly know without even the slightest hint of been there done that?)

The Pope and his cohorts came up with this topic for some reason and the only one I can think of is it was/is happening, and they accepted it as normal practice for at least some segment of the females population..

[ProZak]

https://www.youtube.com/live/e6Xvc1NhTq ... afzlRLj3Zp

[peregrinator]

Seriously, some of you believe that Pope Francis is teaching heresy?

I don't think he's taught heresy - that would require obstinacy and no individual in the Church has the authority to correct him - but he's definitely said some things that are erroneous or heterodox.

[Essential Sacrifice]

I have been married to my wife since June of 1979. Before that we lived together, for 6 months, shared an apartment, a bed and intimacies only reserved for the married. Our sin is/was just as bad as any sin committed by any homosexual living in the same shadow of sexual noncompliance with the law of the Lord. Ours was not homosexual but not right in any way shape or form, very similar to those we speak of here.

No, ProZak I judge know one but believe the person in your video has it all wrong. His Person…Person…Person diatribe does not alleviate the sin, he is also missing the point. That point being love the sinner hate the sin is convoluted by the fact the Pope will not bless the union but will bless the ones who in sin make up the union. God has condemned such relations as it is written Romans 1:26-28 many times over in both the Old and New Testaments. The sin is biblically obvious

So do you see what the Pope has done? He has not condoned the union as is right and just per our scriptures but has allowed for the individual who is committing the sin in that union a blessing from priests in Persona Christi. He has invoked the priest to bless those who are unrequited in their lifestyle… very possibly similar to taking the Body and Blood of the Eucharist unworthily to a potentially grave demise. Only God and those involved know for sure. Whereas the priest will not be held to account but the individual(s) will, and God’s justice is uncompromisingly faithful to His Word.

An individual such as Obi Wan and all priests who take that vow of celibacy, the Virgin Mary and all such people whose celebate life is so extraordinary, so special in a human way. that I cannot even comprehend its depth. 2 Corinthians 11:2 But God loves them immeasurably.

A homosexual person can be certainly celibate but a homosexual union, considering the hard drive of sexual contact would be near impossible, and these are the ones Pope Francis says are ok to bless. I don't know if the Pope has committed heresy but again his words leave much to interpretation.

It's not on the sin (the union) ProZak, it's on the sinner.(the individual) whose blessing is approved by the Pope.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

I don't think any of the propositions listed in the lifesite article reach the level of heresy, which is "is the obstinate denial or doubt, after baptism, of a truth which must be believed by divine and catholic faith." (can. 751)

It is perhaps unfortunate that the old categories of "offensive to pious ears" etc. have fallen out of use. As it is, it's hard to describe things that lie in the land between actual heresy and unobjectionable statements.

Please note that I am not offering an opinion here about anything that Pope Francis has said; I am saying only that the heresy/no problemo dichotomy is false.

[Stella]

Don't be angry Stella...

I was under the impression, because women were doing it ( or else why bring it up in the first place) the Pope and those others were basically allowing for birth control without a pill or any other destructive device as a "pre" birth control so they wouldn't need an abortion(s).

I won't go into the gory details for why women have hysterectomy's. When a Pope or any man has experienced such things, then they can pontificate about why women just need to endure

Oh, I wish you would... It's not just why women must go through legitimately required hysterectomy's (very sadly). Extreme? Yes I would say so but why else would a woman intentionally remove a perfectly healthy uterus? Is there another reason you can come up with to explain this behavior? Is the removal of a human child ,an abortion, less horrible both physically and perhaps especially mentally? I truly don't think this has anything to do with a man's, any man's, perception of the tragic experience (how could we possibly know without even the slightest hint of been there done that?)

The Pope and his cohorts came up with this topic for some reason and the only one I can think of is it was/is happening, and they accepted it as normal practice for at least some segment of the females population..

I'll say again, no woman would choose a hysterectomy as birth control. Even women with serious gynaecological issues are encouraged to try less invasive remedies precisely because having a hysterectomy impacts a women's body negatively.

The reason the Vatican addressed the issue now is because questions were submitted seeking more clarification not covered by the 1993 document which limited liceity to danger to mothers life and health. Nobody is asking for hysterectomy's on 'perfectly healthy' uterus's for the sake of birth control. Read the whole answer here.

https://www.vaticannews.va/en/pope/news ... ctomy.html

[Essential Sacrifice]

Oh, I wish you would

These responses, which retain all of their validity, consider the removal of the uterus to be morally licit when there is a grave and present danger to the life or health of the mother, and hold as illicit, insofar as they are methods of direct sterilization, the removal of the uterus and tubal ligation (uterine isolation) with the intention of making impossible an eventual pregnancy which can pose some risk for the mother The CDF’s response deals with the very specific case “when the uterus is found to be irreversibly in such a state that it is no longer suitable for procreation and medical experts have reached the certainty that an eventual pregnancy will bring about a spontaneous abortion before the fetus is able to arrive at a viable state.” In those cases, the Congregation says, it can be morally licit to remove the uterus, because “it does not regard sterilization.”

https://www.vaticannews.va/en/pope/news

Thank you Stella, I have no idea why the author of the article I brought would say the uterus' were in perfect condition... but they did and I apologize. It does my heart good to know there was and is a viable reason for such an extreme measure.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

One must be careful with lifesite. They can be eager to publish negative things without carefully checking them first.

[Essential Sacrifice]

One must be careful with lifesite. They can be eager to publish negative things without carefully checking them first.

For sure, just learned my lesson. Although Lifesite did publish, it was an article submitted by ...

The following is an open letter by Father Jesusmary Missigbètò, an African priest.

That coupled with the horrific news lately on transgender puberty limiting drugs even with so young a clientele, and transgender irreversible surgery, I was certainly caught off guard in regards to the medical world's over diagnosis ambition, to the detriment of confused puberty aged kids and even younger children and coupled with perhaps dollar hawking physicians who stop at nothing to perform some 73 million abortions annually world wide. There is a part of me that believes unneeded hysterectomy surgery would not be considered out of bounds.

I will absolutely fact check better and save myself some more embarrassment.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

I've been burned enough that I've become cautious!