Do Dinosaurs Prove that Death Existed Before the Fall?

[Stella]

The Bible teaches that Adam and Eve’s sin brought death into the world, but we know from modern science that the dinosaurs lived and died for millions of years prior to the arrival of Homo sapiens. How do Christians make sense of this?

The answer lies in a proper reading of Sacred Scripture. According to the Genesis account, it isn’t animal death in general that comes into the world at the moment of the Fall; rather, it’s specifically human death that is introduced into creation. In the words of St. Paul, “[S]in came into the world through one man and death through sin, and so death spread to all men” (Rom 5:12).

Consequently, when we unearth Tyrannosaurus teeth that clearly didn’t belong to a vegetarian, or when we discover fossils revealing bone cancer in animals that existed 75 million years ago, these findings shouldn’t in any way challenge our faith.

https://stpaulcenter.com/do-dinosaurs-p ... -the-fall/

It's quite an interesting article.

[Doom]

Many of the Church Fathers, including Augustine, Clement of Alexandria, and Origen, the first 3 chapters of Genesis are allegorical and not literal. And the Jewish commentary is much the same. There have always been some who took it strictly literally, but among both Christian and Jewish commentators before the 19th century, they were the minority. Augustine even wrote an entire treatise on the issue arguing that the creation account in Genesis cannot be taken literally. The one detail everyone points out that seems to rule out a strictly literal interpretation is that the sun isn't created until day 4, so how could there possibly be a "day" and "night" before then?

[anawim]

It was Augustine, quoting an ancient Jewish Rabbi who said that the 'light' in Gen. 1:1 was a poetic expression of the creation of the angels, who are often portrayed as beings of light, and that 'separating the light from the dark' is a poetic expression of the casting the disobedient angels out of hell. It is a way of expressing reality but couching it in poetic language.

The Catechism explains that there are 4 interpretations: literal and 3 spiritual. Reflecting on this section, then Pope JPII said that the literal is primary; primary as in first, not primary as in most important. He said that applying the spiritual without first applying the literal is like leaving Scripture as formless; and that applying the literal without then applying the spiritual leaves Scripture as a dead letter. We need both.

[Kage_ar]

Many of the Church Fathers, including Augustine, Clement of Alexandria, and Origen, the first 3 chapters of Genesis are allegorical and not literal. And the Jewish commentary is much the same. There have always been some who took it strictly literally, but among both Christian and Jewish commentators before the 19th century, they were the minority. Augustine even wrote an entire treatise on the issue arguing that the creation account in Genesis cannot be taken literally. The one detail everyone points out that seems to rule out a strictly literal interpretation is that the sun isn't created until day 4, so how could there possibly be a "day" and "night" before then?

As much as it pains me, I agree with Doom.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

[peregrinator]

Many of the Church Fathers, including Augustine, Clement of Alexandria, and Origen, the first 3 chapters of Genesis are allegorical and not literal. And the Jewish commentary is much the same. There have always been some who took it strictly literally, but among both Christian and Jewish commentators before the 19th century, they were the minority. Augustine even wrote an entire treatise on the issue arguing that the creation account in Genesis cannot be taken literally. The one detail everyone points out that seems to rule out a strictly literal interpretation is that the sun isn't created until day 4, so how could there possibly be a "day" and "night" before then?

Do you have a citation for Augustine?

My recollection is that he did not necessarily hold that the six days of Creation were symbolic, but that they symbolized the perfection of Creation (God created the universe in six days when He could have done it in an instant) as six is the smallest perfect number.

[Doom]

Many of the Church Fathers, including Augustine, Clement of Alexandria, and Origen, the first 3 chapters of Genesis are allegorical and not literal. And the Jewish commentary is much the same. There have always been some who took it strictly literally, but among both Christian and Jewish commentators before the 19th century, they were the minority. Augustine even wrote an entire treatise on the issue arguing that the creation account in Genesis cannot be taken literally. The one detail everyone points out that seems to rule out a strictly literal interpretation is that the sun isn't created until day 4, so how could there possibly be a "day" and "night" before then?

Do you have a citation for Augustine?

My recollection is that he did not necessarily hold that the six days of Creation were symbolic, but that they symbolized the perfection of Creation (God created the universe in six days when He could have done it in an instant) as six is the smallest perfect number.

The treatise is called "On the Literal Interpretation of Genesis", he discusses the same issue also in "On Christian Doctrine" and the last part of the Confessions. It is a topic he talked about fairly extensively.

[Heather]

I saw an interesting video about the "young earth" theory. Could dinosaurs not really have been destroyed until the Great Flood? Could they have lived from created on the sixth day with man? So many cultures have myths of dragons - could they have been dinosaurs that coexisted? I would really like to try to understand better the dating that scientists use to date fossils and rocks.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Jimmy Akin covered all of this really well on his Mysterious World podcast. I have my points of disagreement with him, but I have no hesitation recommending these episodes.

http://mysterious.fm/119
http://mysterious.fm/120
http://mysterious.fm/121